This article is part of the GM Authority Opinion Desk series, where you can see exactly what’s on the minds of the GM Authority crew.
Before you answer that, make sure you’ve considered the power and subsequent advantages that a global brand brings to the table. As I’ve discussed previously, one of the best examples of the superior nature of a global name can be seen in GM’s cross-town rival: Ford.
Making a brand available all over the world provides the ability to truly capitalize on the super power known as worldwide marketing by being able to create (social network) buzz about a brand and/or a specific vehicle. In fact, that’s exactly what The Blue Oval is doing with the all-new Focus: as people begin talking about Ford’s new global lineup of compact vehicles, everyone — no matter their location — can participate. A Focus buyer in Australia can discuss his or her experience with the car with someone considering the Focus in the United States… or Korea… or Zimbabwe.
There are, of course, other benefits to a global brand, such as the ability to create integrated advertising campaigns as well as a unified image for the brand — luxuries that General Motors currently can’t enjoy due to the brand and name dichotomy present in Chevrolet and Holden. For example, the next-gen Aveo — which will wear the Sonic nameplate in North America — will be known as the Barina in Oceania, although this may change sooner rather than later.
Now, for those who think I’m absolutely crazy to even suggest the replacement of Holden — a brand that’s been around since 1856 and has been owned by GM since 1931 — let me be extra clear: I’m not recommending that the Holden brand be expunged tomorrow and be immediately replaced by Chevrolet. Doing so may prove disastrous for both marques.
There are, however, tried and true methods of slowly migrating one brand into another that would leave only those living under a rock confused and dumbfounded about the changeup. Take, for example, the way computer networking giant Cisco handled the rebranding of Linksys after buying the home and small business router manufacturer in 2003. Cisco first introduced its brand to the public by renaming Linksys routers to Linksys by Cisco… and now — seven years after the decision was made to move away from the Linksys brand — the Linksys name is totally gone, having been replaced by Cisco altogether. Everyone knows what Cisco is… and most people know that the company had something to do with Linksys at some point or another.
So, while Holden may be working in Oceania for now, General Motors will find that keeping Holden around will put Chevrolet at an increased disadvantage compared to global brands such as Ford and Toyota as time goes on. As such, I would love to see Chevrolet (along with Buick and GMC) become completely global brands to the tunes of Ford, Toyota, BMW, and Lexus, among others. What about you?
This article is part of the GM Authority Opinion Desk series, where you can see exactly what’s on the minds of the GM Authority crew.
Comments
The only problem is that Holden is a beloved brand in Australia, Chevrolett is a damaged one in the US, Maybee the Corvette should finally become a Cadillac and the Cruze and Manaro and such could be called Holdens worldwide, NASCAR would get used to it just like they got used to TOYOTA, maybee we could get some of that sweet V8 Supercar action stateside, with left and right turns and indepeneant rear suspention and everything.
Dear Alex,
You’re a tit.
Love
The Aussies
Excellent! The 5th item on my bucket list has been fulfilled in my transformation to a tit. Time to cross it off with my very pink lipstick! 😉
Much better to rebrand GM as Holden. Don’t worry – I’m not thinking this should happen overnight, more like a Cisco/Linksys thing were the brand can be Chevrolet by Holden for a while until you get used to it. Most people should recall that Chevrolet used to exist.
Surely you realise that there are eight different GM brands listed on the menu bar of your website. GM have pursued the separate brands policy too far for the unification to work. Also, wouldn’t you choose to keep one of the brands that is not synonymous with a mutli billion dollar government bail out?
Why would you replace a brand name so loved and recognised in Australia for generations and generations. Chris had the better idea why dont we replace chevrolet with Holden..
Well, simply because Chevy is everywhere except for Oceania/Australia/NZ, etc. If Holden were to become global, it would be a lot more difficult to do. And I simply don’t see Chevy going away. It’s one of those pillars of General Motors that — in my opinion — will never die.
Loved and recognized? To what end?
Holden sales have dropped for for the last 4 years in a row. Mazda and Hyundai and Toyota sell more cars in Australia.
All that begs the question: is Holden truly loved and recognized as you say?
Because sales figures say that no one gives a shit about Holden, and would rather buy cars without a heritage in the country. Thoughts?
Mate, you’ve got absolutely no idea what happens outside of the US borders .. do you ?
Holden is, recognised by GM, as one of the, if not the, strongest brand in the GM stable. Just ask Mark Reuss. … you know who he is ?? And what GM business unit he was last in charge of ….. yeah Holden.
When Detroit can design a decent rear wheel drive car or a front end that doesn’t look like a 5 year old drew it with crayons, come back and talk again with your ideas of imposing banal US ideas on the rest of the world, including the Chevy bow tie … by then I would have been retired from Holden for 100 years
Nope, never heard of Reuss. Who is he? 😉
I’m more than familiar with the story behind Reuss and Holden. And as I’ve stated in previous comments — I’m not from “within” U.S. borders, having lived most of my life in Europe. So a global perspective is something on which I pride myself.
So here’s my question to you, mate: would you call the Holden Cruze, Holden Barina, Holden Barina Spark, and Holden Captiva 5 and 7 as “banal US ideas”? If you would, do you realize that every single one of those cars is a Chevrolet (or Saturn) — which means that you Holden loyalists buy Chevys by the boatload every day? Sure, they may be assembled locally… but they’re still Chevys everywhere else in the world.
You do realize that up until the VE Commodore, Holden’s were entirely rebadged from other parts of the world? Either Opel’s, Daewoos, or yes, American Chevrolets. And you do realize, of course, that General Motors North America made “decent” world-beating RWD vehicles for decades while Holden was just the importer/rebadging firm in Australia for GM Worldwide. And you do realize that General Motors North America designed the Sigma platform, which is superior in every quantifiable way to the Zeta platform, and is hard at work bringing the Alpha platform to market, which will likely replace the Zeta platform by the end of the decade.
Oh, and as a sidenote, the Ford Falcon is getting replaced with either a Ford Taurus, or a Ford Mustang sedan. Designed in the United States.
How does that make you feel?
A Marquee is a tent. What you may mean is a Marque.
And while I am making a comment here…………
LEAVE THE HOLDEN BRAND NAME AS IT IS!!!!!!
Thanks! Fixed!
Personally, you give me the Camaro and you can put whatever badge you like on it. As it currently stands, we can get a LHD imported from the US and then expect to pay anywhere from 70-100K above US purchase price for a RHD conversion. A sad state of affairs for a car with a lot of roots in Australia 🙁 Perhaps it should be renamed the Holden Camaro?
The biggest problem with the Chevrolet brand is that in this part of the world they’re synonymous with “gas” guzzling “yank” tanks, whilst the Holden brand is synonymous with home-grown (petrol guzzling land-barges).
Using Cisco as a reference may not have been a great example, they generally produce massively overpriced, mediocre products 😉
Lastly, aren’t GM’s sold under a different brand in the UK/Europe? My knowledge may be outdated, it’s been a while since I was last there, but I’m certain that was the case back then.
You are kidding, right? Americans, whom I normally admire, sometimes make me giggle a bit with their insular knowledge of what happens in other parts of the world.
Alex…let me elucidate you: Holden is probably the most recognised and beloved automotive brand in Australia. Over here the brand generates fierce familial loyalty…almost tribal in nature…compared to loyal Ford followers, seen as the “enemy”. Fathers will pass their love for Holdens on to their kids in an unbroken family line…the loyalty and love for the brand is that strong! To suggest that the Chevy bow tie replace the iconic “Lion Rampant with rolling stone” Holden badge is, quite frankly, just nuts!
Chevies WERE sold here up until the late sixties and they were sold as a “luxury” alternative to the local Holden Premiers, Broughams and Statesmans. But they FLOPPED badly because they were seen as overweight blubber cars with huge fuel consumption compared to the sensibly-sized and well powered Holden sixes and small black V8s. And, to be quite frank, your Chevies are shiite compared to our Holdens.
Not only is the Commodore better-assembled than your Chevies, not only does it have better handling and better overall design, the Holden Commodore, ironically badged as a “Chevrolet Lumina” in the Arabic world and South America, outsells your local American product hand over fist. The Arabs buy the Statesman and Lumina in bucketloads because they know the cars are built well, built tough and will survive the searing desert heat precisely because they know these cars are actually rebadged Holdens, which come from a hot climate.
Back in the late sixties a member of the Saudi Royal family visited Australia and one of the main aims of his visit was to buy an HD Holden Premier Station wagon for his family. Holdens had a tremendous reliability reputation in Saudi Arabia and he wanted that precise car. Well, unfortunately for him, Holden was well into the local “HK” series and couldn’t provide the Royal prince with the car that he wanted, as it was an old model. So, to save face and to keep the gentleman happy, a Holden representative found a second-hand car of the type the Prince wanted with very low mileage and had the Holden line mechanics and engineers re-engine, re-build, re-paint and re-trim the car from the ground up and they added a Smith’s air-con unit for the Prince as well. He was thrilled to bits and sent the car home immediately.
And you want us to call our cars Chevies??? Bah! Tell you what, howsabout YOU call Chevies Holdens! The Chevy brandplarte is so sullied right now that the change might do GM some good! 🙂
Tom — nice try — but I’m not American (even though I do live in the U.S). Perhaps a trip to our “About” page would help? Now, let’s get to the point:
Are you sure about this? Every single Holden IS a Chevy (or Saturn) — except for two (Commodore and Statesman). Have you driven and/or seen a Chevy recently? I’m sure you have — since the Cruze, Barina, Barina Spark, and (the upcoming) Malibu are all Chevys badged as Holdens. Sure, some may be built locally, but to say that locally-built vehicles are assembled better is pure nonsense. Give me some data!
Nice try??? I’m not “trying” anything…I noticed you conveniently skirted around the brand loyalty issue and went on to pontificate about Holden’s imports. You need to change jobs and become a politician! You must be a Pom!
Here’s what you need to do, mate. Ring Mark Reuss and ask him about the Elizabeth plant’s (where Commodores are made) build quality and then compare the data to other plants in the US. I can’t access the data being an “average Joe Blow” off the street but you can, with your GM contacts. I have a good connection in management and I can tell you, with absolute certainty, that Holden’s build quality is second to none in the GM empire and Holden, unlike Chevy, was one of the only GM brands to remain reasonably profitable during the GFC.
Now…let’s move on to your Camaro…who designed that, Alex…What was that? A bunch of Aussie HOLDEN engineers, was it ??? And who is it that has made Daewoo improve their body styles and their handling…not another Aussie Holden ex-pat, surely???
To finish off let me tell you what local GM bigwigs thought of your idea…The polite term was “nonsense”, as published in “The Age” newspaper. Privately? Decorum forbids me to post the invective used. Dream on…by all means offer your opinions but, mate, be prepared to fry for them because if you try and scuttle Holden you’ll have a massive fight on your hands. How’s that for BRAND LOYALTY?
You know, you seem to offer tons of advice for someone who you just met — ONLINE — yesterday.
Don’t worry — I’m not a politician. And the fact that I “conveniently skirted” the brand loyalty issue is a nonstarter. Have you read the comments preceding yours? Have you read my replies to them? I think I’ve mentioned it enough times already that there is absolutely no question that Holden is a strong brand… or at least that’s the case among enthusiasts such as yourself. I wonder, however, what a “normal” person would say in this matter… someone who’s not an enthusiast such as yourself (or myself).
As for the rest of your comment — you’re now the one “conveniently skirting” the issue, which is the fact that every Holden, save for those on the Zeta platform, is actually a Chevy everywhere else in the world! Barina Spark, Spark, Cruze, Captiva… and the Epica replacement — the Malibu (which may or may not be coming to Australia). So Holden is really made up of three uniquely distinctive vehicles: Commodore, Statesman, and Ute. Everything else is your hated “Chevy” or, even worse, Daewoo. Have you thought about this?
Now, let’s talk build quality. Whatever the case may be with the Elizabeth facilities, I don’t see how it’s relevant if what I’m offering is a simple nameplate switchover. The plant would continue running as is… but instead of the Holden badge, you’d see the bow tie. So I’m not sure I follow the point of bringing that up.
As for the opinions of “GM bigwigs” and various newspapers… good for them. Yes, I’m stating my opinion; and I’m still 100 percent behind it… but that does not mean that just because of a few opposing comments here and there, that I’m suddenly going to have a change of heart. Simply put, it’s not the job of a journalist to listen to corporate drivel. That said, I’m glad we could have this conversation, which I truthfully appreciate.
And yes — nice try! That was in reference to the following:
“You are kidding, right? Americans, whom I normally admire, sometimes make me giggle a bit with their insular knowledge of what happens in other parts of the world.”
I’m not American.
Wow Alex, you do have a lot to learn about the rest of the world don’t you? Change the Holden to Chevy and GM’s sales in Australia will plummet. Australians don’t like the American brands. Commonly referred to as ‘Yank Tanks’ most are despised. Yes there are a few ‘fanboy’s here who sport the Chevy badge but they are also despised as being of low intelligence.
As a matter of interest can you buy Ford Falcons there still. What about Ford Territorys or Ford Explorers. If these model names exist there I am confident that they do not refer to the same vehicles running around the streets of Australia.
How many Chevies sold in Europe last year? Or was a different brand name get used? If a unified brand name is so important why does the US still have Chevy, Buick, GMC & Cadillac? Surely they could all be marketed under the Chevy brand name? Do you know where the Buick G8 was made until a little while ago?
I think you might have clearly demonstrated how small the world you live in really is. Expand your horizons boy!!!
PS: I don’t think your a tit. Tits are interesting, sexy and fun to play with. I can’s see you being any of these
Well, Bernie, let’s start with this: I’ve probably been to AND lived in more places around the world than you have — so let’s not even go there and make assumptions about whether someone needs to “learn about the rest of the world.” Go ahead and read my bio on the About page.
Now — to answer you question — Chevy is GM’s mainstream global brand. It exists everywhere EXCEPT for Oceania. The situation with Buick, Opel/Vauxhall, and GMC is a bit shaky right now — but I think they will eventually turn Buick/Opel/Vauxhall into global brands as well. Caddy is on its way to becoming a global brand to the tune of BMW/Mercedes… And — Ford Falcons are going away as you know them. So are the Territories. The One Ford plan is kicking ass and taking names — and will eventually deliver a roundhouse kick to Chevrolet’s AND Holden’s faces that’s so hard that GM will be left picking up bodily pieces left and right. Being a GM enthusiast, it pains me to say that — but it’s true — and it’s already happening in the States, with Ford (2 brands) outselling GM (4 brands) by a wide margin. And as for the Buick G8 — Buick is undergoing a huge transformation right now and I don’t think that car will be around for much longer as a Buick.
Furthermore, what you seem to fail to realize is clearly stated in your sentence: “Change the Holden to Chevy and GM’s sales in Australia will plummet.” The key point here isn’t changing Holden to Chevy, it’s making the transition OVER TIME. It would be a gradual process by which consumers realize that Chevys are and/or were Holdens — and will have a different association with the brand than your regular American brand name (Ford).
I’m not even going to touch the “expand your horizons part.” I think you’re taking the piece personally — as a direct attack on your Australian roots… and that can’t be further from the point.
The Falcon will be turned into a Taurus, too.
U-S-A.
Precisely! So the Commodore range (and its siblings — Statesman and Ute) will be the only RWD sedans left. And I wonder how long that will last… and if there’s no RWD Commodore, then most of the commenters we see here will probably build their own (or buy a Camaro).
That said, the Commodore range is very successful — so it may not follow the demise of the RWD Falcon.
I believe that I can see where you are coming from, and the advantages that you list are quite real, but I think that there are issues that you have failed to consider.
The best example of rebranding of cars is that of Daewoo becoming Chevrolet, but there are key differences. Daewoo had existed as a car brand only since 1983, and was a market leader in few locations. In many cases, it had a negative image in the minds of consumers, which would take many years of improved product to rectify.
By rebranding as Chevrolet, this negative association could be reduced, allowing a positive image to form more rapidly amongst the public. There was little value in brand ‘Daewoo’, so the change had minimal cost in terms of brand equity, whilst still providing all the benefits that you cite.
As you acknowledge, Holden has a much longer history, but I think you underestimate the goodwill towards brand ‘Holden’. It is the second best selling brand in Australia, and probably the most front-of-mind for the public. Despite American ownership, it is felt to be Australian in a way that Ford and Toyota aren’t, despite their engineering and manufacturing presence.
A delicate rebrand as old products were replaced and the new models badged as Chev, would in itself be expensive, and take a decade or more. While it is not impossible, I cannot see GM sacrificing so much brand equity in the short-term.
Lachlan
P.S. Your thoughts on rebranding the Barina are more likely, but the Spark was just introduced here as “Barina Spark,” which suggests it has some value as a name.
Those are all great points Lachlan. It will, without a doubt, be a lengthy process that will need to be carried out with the utmost precision. The question at this point is whether the benefits outweigh the shortcomings of the procedure in the long term. I’d love to see the goodwill towards Holden be translated into Chevy in Australia.
We welcome Holden to be re-branded as long as we get the full range of chev products mainly those lovely pickup trucks and maybe the Camaro and Vettes
Well, that would be the whole idea! Most (if not all) Chevy products in North America make their way over to the countries in which Holden has been sold previously.
I am a lifelong Holden enthusiast / customer and wouldn’t even consider owning any other brand of car, but let me tell you this… If the Holden brand is replaced with Chevrolet I will not touch one with a 10 foot pole. I would sooner buy a Toyota!
LEAVE HOLDEN ALONE!!!
So you’d sooner buy a front wheel drive Toyota over a Chevy that’s the same exact car that has been sold under the Holden brand? The 2nd rule of marketing always prevails, I guess: after rational consumers make buying decisions, irrational consumers begin to make waves (or something to that effect).
The overwhelming majority of non-enthusiast Australian buyers are subscribers to a time-honoured view that American vehicles are ugly, cumbersome, badly engineered and sloppily assembled. A visitor from space exposed to Ford’s Australian marketing would assume that they were either a local concern or, failing that, European.
Right! So a slow, thought-out, and gradual transition from Holden to Chevy would make the most sense to change perceptions from the “ugly, cumbersome, and badly-engineered, and sloppily assembled” to whatever Holden is associated with.
You got noticed on an Australian car website:
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/change-holden-to-chevrolet-says-us-website-20110503-1e69h.html
Thanks 98! Appreciate the link!
Alex
(GM/ex-Holden staff disclaimer) – Alex, nice one for provocation! I’m sure the Aussies following GM Authority will tell you what they think of that idea. Not sure if Tom Barton and Bernie are Aussies, but they talked that way. As an Aussie and former Holden employee, I always get a laugh when this concept comes up but you’ve got to understand the link between the country and the Holden brand. You could supplement (eg Opel shortly) but not supplant Holden. Your suggestion that Holden = Chevrolet misses the point that the best selling car for the past 14 years has been the Holden Commodore, developed in Australia. Just my two cents. It’s a good discussion and cool to see the passion coming through.
Jason — I completely understand the cultural ties between Holden and Australia. Holden ≠ Chevrolet RIGHT NOW. My question, however, is whether that may happen at some point down the line. I don’t think it can be argued that, in the long term — GM, Chevrolet, and Holden will be at a massive disadvantage if the current dichotomy continues.
And regarding the Commodore — absolutely! It’s a great and fun car! I’m not calling for its discontinuation — lest I be named a commie 🙂
But, to me, it’s not that difficult to imagine the Chevy name slowly creeping up into the Holden Commodore name at one point or another.
Dear Alex,
Get Real! How would you like to hand the Oceania market to Ford along with all of
Holden’s exports to the rest of the World. Don’t be so Bloody USA Centric.
Have a bucketful of shame today.
Just another Aussie whose word does not matter!
Brian — you’ve figured me out! I’m a Ford fan in disguise — and I’ve been sent from space to give Ford Oceania! 🙂
Who told you?
Alex, you make the claim “I completely understand the cultural ties between Holden and Australia.” The mere fact you’ve made this suggestion shows that you DO NOT.
As one who is not a ‘Holden Man’ ( in fact, I’ve never owned a Holden, and the last one in the family was a 50th Anniversary Kingswood in around 1981 and it was a total dog…) I feel I can give you an objective insight into this.
Other commentators have remarked that when it comes to Ford and Holden the correct adjective is ‘tribal’. That’s an acute understatement. Across Australia it’s universally held that the answer you give to “Ford or Holden?” will tell your questioner everything they need to know about you. [ Though I will admit that the further Outback you head, the more likely the answer is to be “Toyota Landcruiser – the old ones; bloody unbreakable”.]
You seem to think the Chevy label has some brand-value Down Under. Perhaps for a small, small percentage in the ‘petrol-head’ variety, but for the vast majority Chevy reeks of a heritage of piss-poor design and awful business management. Current reality may be different but the perception is everything in marketing.
Searching for a way to describe how ‘Australia’ would react to this that you would understand. I thought of suggesting it would be like re-naming Texas to “Australia’s little outback”. But even that doesn’t get us where we need to go with this concept.
Try this: Australia has been the US’s most steadfast ally for over 50 years. We went into Vietnam and the Gulf with nary a murmur and we’re about the only country who’s going to tough it out to the end in Afghanistan.
If GM changes Holden to Chevy I think Australia will declare war on the US. Really.
I
Brian — I appreciate your comment. To reply, I’m going to quote you:
I do — in fact — understand the strong ties between one and the other. Whether you call it cultural, tribal, societal, or otherwise seems like a simple matter of word choice. Fact is, Aussies love their Holdens. Done deal.
You’re making a false assumption here. I do not think that Chevy has any kind of brand value in Australia (besides, perhaps, to those who rebadge their Holdens as Chevys on purpose and for the sake of being “cool” and “unique”). What I am recommending, however, is that equity in the Chevy name be built over time. So that in 20 years, people grow up associating Holden with Chevrolet. And once that reaches a satisfying level, there’d be no reason for the Holden marque any more.
That said, I appreciate your satirical war analogies. Right on!
Alex Luft
I would never buy a Holden rebranded as Chevy. Never.
Why? Because as soon as we loose the Holden Brand, everything will be forced upon us by Detroit and there will be no “aussie ” DNA in the vehicle. And by “everything” I mean the crap designs, the crap performance, the crap handling, the crap names.
You continue to shout from the roof tops about Holden Cruze, Holden Barina, Holden Barina Spark, and Holden Captiva 5 and 7 all being Chrevrolets. Get real, they are all Korean designs, with all the positives (ha!) that come with that. Definitely not something I’d be shouting about.
“As such, I would love to see Chevrolet (along with Buick and GMC) become completely global brands to the tunes of Ford, Toyota, BMW, and Lexus, among others. What about you?”
Your last point here is quite interesting, you wish to create a global brand for GM yet you allow Buick and GMC to remain, similarly you name Lexus, a Toyota offshoot as a global brand.
Ford is known as Ford Motors Company, Chevy is just a sub-brand of General Motors Company. Surely to create a truly global brand Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Holden, Cadillac, Opel and Vauxhall all need to be rebranded as General Motors, then you’d have a truly global brand to compete with Ford.
Alex,
First it’s Lachlan, not Brian. And, after all ‘What’s in a name?” is the whole point of this topic 🙂
As to the satirical war analogy, it wasn’t meant to be satirical. While Australia accepts HUGE amounts of American cultural influence there are some things that would just stick in the average Aussie’s throat. Even for non-Holden drivers the attempt at re-naming would be difficult to swallow. You mention a phase-out program of up to 20 years — did you not lok at your calendar and realise that would end in 2031…. the centenary of Holden? I wish you luck in retiring the name in THAT year ( or any other ).
I think most Aussies would be as likely to accept the replacement of Holden with ANY other name as they would accept the appointment of Axelrod as Captain of the Australian Cricket Team 🙂 Australia has had 20+ years of seeing it’s iconic brands sold overseas and eroded for example Arnott’s biscuits and Vegemite. I think if you put Holden on the endangered list it would be the straw that broke the camel’s back There’d be a whole lot of folks pulling Grandpa’s old Army .303 off the wall and manning the barricades !
It’s irrational, I openly admit, but then all ‘marketing’ and ‘product loyalty’ is. I’d suggest you best back away from this topic slowly and without further alarming the natives. On the list of Aussie wildlife to be treated with respect Great White Sharks and Box Jellyfish are as nothing compared to the mortal danger created by angering the ‘Commodore Crowd’ 🙂
Hey Lachlan – sorry about the name mixup — I was obviously looking at someone else’s name when I replied to your comment.
Again, I very much understand the legendary status of Holden. Here’s my question to you: do you think that, if Holden were (hypothetically, of course) to become “Holden by Chevrolet) tomorrow and continued on for 10-15-20 years until the Holden name being dropped altogether, that the “next generation” of drivers and car buyers would notice… or care? (there is a difference between those two, of course).
And yes, 2031 may not be the best time frame. I was just throwing it out as an example — not with any kind of accuracy.
That said, I won’t “back away from this topic” and will take all the heat needed. Just like you, I’m a strong believer 🙂
What you fail to relise even over time Australians would not accept chevy replacing Holden even it was over time. How about we try replacing California with the name New Victoria. We do it over time though say 20 yrs start of by saying New Victoria by california and slowly over time dilute California until New Victoria is just the name see how everyone there would accept that.
You have to honestly need to understand the Australian and culture and way of life to really understand why Australians would not like this.
You say Holden would be harder to make a Global product then chevy, I think your totally wrong Asia/Oceania is the biggest Car market in the world and would say Holden has a better name through out that market then chevrolet.
I know chevys are being sold in europe but what are Gm’s biggest brands there certainly not chevrolet while we are replacing Holden with chevy why don’t we just replace Opel and Vauxhal with chvy as well. You have as much chance of that being accepted and you would having chevy replacing Holden.
But going by your responses to other peoples comments you seem to think your 100% right and everyone else including all us Aussies are wrong.
Honestly, I think they’d have a BETTER chance at renaming Opel&Vauxhall to Chev than Holden.
@holdenforever – not a matter of wrong — it’s a matter of an opinion. GM Authority comments are open — so we value everyone’s opinions equally and are huge supporters of free speech… unlike other websites that will “ban” you for going against the flow. Yes, I believe that my proposed strategy will be more effective and successful in the long-term for GM than keeping Holden around. I’ve mentioned the reasons in my article — not sure if I need to repeat it here.
To your comment: let’s not go overboard here. Renaming a state is not the same as doing the same to a brand! Not even close. Brands are meant to be changed, manipulated, expanded, and exploited (in the business sense). Brands are how businesses, well, do business! A government, on the other hand, is completely the opposite. I can extoll many differences between the two — even though companies, brands, and governments do share a few similarities. But that’s not the pont. The fact is that renaming California is far and away not the same thing as renaming a brand… even a brand with such a loyal audience and customer base as Holden.
As for Asia/Oceania being the biggest automotive market – you’ve basically bagged two utterly different markets here. It’s Asia as a single market (where Holden is non-existent, but Chevrolet is). Oceania is another market. If I combine North and South America, I can also end up with the world’s biggest auto market… so let’s keep it accurate for the sake of our discussion.
Even so, you’d have to rebrand Chevy across every single country in the world as a Holden if we were to follow your strategy; or we could rebrand Holden as Chevy in two major markets — Australia and New Zealand (with some small markets left over). Which one makes more sense?
And yes — you’re right in saying that Chevy isn’t GM’s most popular brand in Europe. But it may be soon: it’s now finally getting competitive vehicles (not rebadged Daewoos) — part of GM’s long-term plan of making Chevy global (or at least competitive in Europe). And yes, Opel/Vauxhall currently compete in the same market segments as Chevy in Europe (and even China). This, however, will change soon enough. Heck, Chevy could be the mainstream brand it is today, while Opel/Vauxhall could be the Kia of the Hyundai family (more expressive, aggressive, sporty, and fun). I wonder if the same could be done with Chevy and Holden in Australia…
i’m getting my old 3030 off the wall now and cleaning her up last time she was fired was in 1945.
Beryl has got the FX ute out of shed and is ready to barricade the street on my word.
You can take my wife, root my dog but hands off Holden and my VB bloody poofta..
I see your points, and there are good ones. but although you state that you understand the link between Australians an Holdens, I believe you underestimate it immensely. I personally think that removing the Holden brand, be it immediate or over a long period, would be a mistake.
When you have a brand of such strength and loyalty – a brand that customers will literally start brawls to defend, Why would you remove it? Just so you can have a global advertising strategy? What a waste.
The comparison with Linksys/Cisco is interesting, but mute – Linksys never had the benefit of a fiercely loyal customer base, and Cisco already had a good reputation in the field – unlike Chevrolet which is a severely damaged brand here in Australia.
Maybe Chevrolet in Australia is a good idea – Possibly as a niche camaro/corvette brand, or maybe Holden should go back to selling Opel small vehicles and Chevrolet could come in underneath as the entry brand (but then that kind of defeats the point of Holden being the ‘Aussie battlers’ car). I don’t really know the answer, but sacrificing the lion to bring the bowtie really seems like a stupid move.
Fair enough. I think that what you propose is interesting. I’m beginning to realize that there seems to be room for two mainstream automakers under the same parent company. For example – Hyundai and Kia.
Hyundai is the mainstream Toyota/Honda fighter (Chevy fighter in the States). Kia is the younger, more expressive, more aggressive brand that uses the same overall architectures and platforms. Could the former be Chevy while the latter be Holden (with Opel vehicles?).
Alex,
Given my experience in working for US multinationals, I expect your contention would have been considered several times previously … and obviously rejected.
And I expect the strategists will keep rolling this out of the shed every now and then.
Acknowledge that the position might have changed now with market leadership relinquished, and greater exposure to imports.
However, local market research would most likely show substantial strength in the Holden brand, and a significant consumer backlash if diluted.
In my opinion, the branding approach of Chevrolet by GM, Holden by GM, Vauxhall by GM, etc has greater credibility if a global branding strategy was adopted. It achieves global branding but maintains local market allegiances.
This approach might mean the Chevrolet brand needs a bit of tampering, with Holden already there.
Ross — interesting suggestion. As far as I understand, GM wants to keep its name out of its brands as much as possible due to the infamous bankruptcy and subsequent tarnished image. The “by GM” part was pretty much the strategy when the GM badges of excellence were present on all of The General’s cars… but I don’t think it was as pronounced as you are suggesting.
That said, it’s obvious (especially after the comments seen here) that the Holden brand holds significant market strength; I wonder if the two could co-exist (and carry different product lines) for some time; Chevy could be Chevy with its global vehicle range, while Holden could have its current bread-and-butter Commodore and Statesman (their specialty) while carrying a range of Opel vehicles.
Also, amongst my numerous spelling and grammer errors in the previous posts, I forgot to make my last point.
You mentioned “I’d love to see the goodwill towards Holden be translated into Chevy in Australia”. Unless Australia literally becomes the lost state of the United States, That won’t happen. A Major part of the goodwill perception of Holden is that it’s considered Australian (even though it is well known to be owned by GM)… “Football, Meat pies, Kangaroos and Holden cars”. Yes it’s a re-jig of a chevrolet ad, the patriotism still stands – because Australians are a lot like Americans, and the sort of blind-raging love (example: “Chevrolet, I will not touch one with a 10 foot pole, LEAVE HOLDEN ALONE!!”) won’t transfer to an off-shore brand. You may think that it’s worth sacrificing for the global-brand strategy. I don’t think many people, including GM, agree with you.
On another note… I’m sure this blog got a nice spike of hits with this controversy!!
I think it more likely the author of this suggestion is replaced by someone who knows what they are talking about, rather than Holden being replaced by Chevrolet in the AUS/NZL markets.
Alex,
I think you can see the type of backlash that would be felt by GM if they were to even consider changing the branding of Holden in Australia to Chevrolet.
It was merely put forward by you in an obscure blog not known to many and has already sparked fierce debate with the general consensus being that it would be an atrocious idea.
I think a re-think by you and perhaps acknowledgement that it would not sit well with the Australian marketplace would be appropriate.
If you continue to contend that this would be a “step forward” for GM and not in any way impact on their earnings is naive to say the least. You have contended that you are a man of the world, pointing towards the fact that you spent some time in Russia as evidence that you are not a parochial American, truly does not reflect your understanding of at least the Australian national psyche, for which Holden is a massive part.
Rescind your statement, indicate that you were wrong and we can all move on.
Regards,
Luke
Luke — what would you like me to rescind, exactly? You do realize that the article we’re all discussing here is an opinion… hence, it’s part of the Opinion Desk series. This is where my American parochialism would kick and tell you that I live in a country where free speech is highly valued… but I won’t do go there.
Now, it’s obvious that Holden is as dear to the Australian marketplace as life. However, I still believe that having Chevy in Australia would be best for GM — especially in the long run. Maybe Chevy should not replace Holden — but this needs to digested before there is any kind of statement — rescinding or not.
Alex,
Did you proof read your article? I dont think you will find any one in this forum that will side with your rediculous abstract view of a united brand in such a unique and passionate automotive sales environment. You really need to do some homework and look at some stats and figures before getting on the eyboard. the Australian market is dominated by more than 90% of imported vehicles. There is so much selection hear that you can have almost anything you want! Interestingly, Holden ranks very high againt the cheap imports and luxury cars. Somthing Chevy cannot accomplish in its own markets. It goes to say that allthough there are a lot less of us down under, we still prefer to purchase aussie made. Why? because it a bloody Holden and its bloody Aussie and it makes us feel connected and passionate about being Australian. I cant speek for Chevy fans but in my opinion they dont gave the rich culture that we display.
I pray that the yanks (puppet masters) never lose sight of this fact. I will never by an aussies built or designed car that shows a bowtie. I think most of the people herein would agree. Also on another note, do you think that the Camaro was not branded holden in the states because they needed a ‘pump up’ to their own brand because it has been failing for so long? Why is Holden not being recognised abroad. The vauxhall R8 got outstanding reviews, “Downunder Thunder”. where is the Holden badge?
Alex, you really have to think before going and upsetting all the holden diehards, you must now understand the passion we have for our cars.
Take it easy on us! The yanks have us by the balls allready and were allready far to tied to them.
Keep it real
AG
AG — did I proof read the article? Well, if you want to take the conversation in that direction, then yes — I did…
That’s why there’s isn’t a single grammatical error in the post! But I can point a few out in your comment:
“dont”, “Somthing”, “there is so much selection here”, “because it a bloody Holden”, “cant”… need I go on?
Hey, it was your choice to steer the conversation in that direction… not mine. And I don’t mean that in a crude or mean way at all — so pardon my tone if it came out that way.
Now that we have the petty stuff out of the way, le’s get to the real topic at hand: you make a good point that national roots are a huge bond to break (my words). This is true — and I don’t intend to argue that.
So let’s talk about Chevy: it’s undergoing a serious global revamp. Within the next two years, it will have received a totally new product portfolio and will have unified models across the Americas, Asia, and Europe! So when you refer to Chevrolet as not being able to do this or do that (as opposed to the competition), you have to keep in mind that it’s a work in progress… a work that began only recently.
You’re right, however, in saying that the national bond between Holden and Australia is much stronger than that between Chevy and the U.S. In fact, it’s sometimes disheartening to see that so many Americans don’t seem to care about Chevy (of Ford, for that matter).
As for me needing to “do my homework” and needing “to think”– I agree this is important… and I think I’ve done plenty herein. I am expressing an opinion — and am looking for feedback, of which I’ve (obviously) received a mouthful in these comments. The strategy I’ve outlined in the article took its fare share of time and effort to create… and then even more time and effort to put into words. To me, that’s homework and thinking! I don’t need proof to know that Holden is a beloved brand in Australia; I’ve mentioned that much in the article.
Lastly, I’m not afraid of push-back or a heated discussion. So if you think that I will crawl under the table and write an article about how much I think Holden needs to stay in Australia as a silo brand — while believing completely the opposite deep in side my heart — then you’re dead wrong. To a certain extent, this is what opinions are all about. It’s a matter of who decided to express them that makes the difference! To me, that’s keeping it real! 🙂
Alex,
The only reason I can think for your stupidity in making this silly suggestion is that you have been smoking crack! Get a real job and leave Holden alone you wanker. And for the record it pains me to see any Holden badge on the Korean econoboxes you call Chevrolets. The new Australian built Cruze is excepted, but Captiva, Barina and Epica are all pieces of Daewoo shit and covering them up with a Chev or Holden badge does neither brand any justice whatsoever. The new Malibu looks like a grandpa’s car, leave it in the states and long live the Commodore V8
Real job: check
Leave Holden alone: nope
Crack pipe: nope
Chevrolet = Daewoo econoboxes: nope — get your facts checked… Daewoo is done with. The Daewoo team now assists in the global development of GM vehicles (mostly Chevys).
Now let’s turn to your hatred of Daewoo/Chevrolet and your self-proclaimed “econobox” label:
1. The Epica will soon be gone
2. The Captiva is what, the 3rd best-selling CUV in Australia? So it’s successful in its own right.
3. You seem to like the Cruze. I’ll let that one slide.
4. Have you seen the new Sonic/Aveo/Barina Spark?
5. How about the Camaro?
6. Have you drive the Corvette?
7. Have you even seen a Volt?
Let’s leave it at this: Chevy’s new lineup is one of the best on the market… if not the best. I would know — I’ve driven all of them. Have you? And right before you reply by saying that I haven’t driven Holdens — I have… since they’re mostly Chevys anyway. I’ve driven the G8 — which is the Commodore. The only Holdens I haven’t driven are the Statesman and Ute.
So shove that in your crack pipe while you’re at the unemployment office looking for a job for yourself.
(Honestly, you don’t need to call people stupid due to a difference in opinion.)
As I am not a Holden Man, I consulted some of my work colleagues who are. I asked them to a) calm down b) spend a few hours trying to come up with an equivalent example of what this change would feel like if inflicted on a US populace. Here’s what they came up with:
” Imagine if the 6pm news tonight in the USA carried the lead-story that 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ( aka “The White House” ) had been sold to the Bin Laden Family Construction Company.”
Gee, tell us how you really feel, lads !
Sometimes a brand-name transcends being just a brand for a business. Odd as it may seem to some, there are huge swathes of folk for whom Holden is more a statement about who they are than what they drive to work.
I can think of one automotive example that might convey the equivalent sentiment: Harley Davidson. Imagine the response to trying to change THAT name ( or infact go back to the history books and see what happened to the machines and the brand when AMR took over Harley and there was no ‘original family’ input. ).
Holden may only be iconic in a small area at the arse end of the world…..but is Chevy actually an icon anywhere? And, if it’s a matter of effective branding, you’d probably make better mileage world-wide out of ‘born and bred in the hottest, hardest continent on the planet’ ( Holden ) than ‘we’ve had 50 years experience in making cars that suck back 15 gallons to the mile, steer like the Queen Mary, look like they were styled by 5 year old rap gangsters and break if you look at them.”
I think that with this idea you’re trying to push the proverbial uphill with a pointy stick.
Taking the Holden brand from us would be like taking fast food from Americans – there would be a revolt !!!
Most of the cars you mention are Daewoo’s – Re brand it Chev and then take the credit . There is no way you will see us buy an aussie made product and with a chev badge stuck to it. We take your so called Chevs – (Daewoos) and then spend alot of money making them driveable… We engineered your hero car the camaro and then also purpose built your police cars which we here rave reviews about. I think the guys at Holden derseve to keep and be proud of it’s Australian culture.
But how is taking away the fast food industry the same as taking away Holden? One is an industry… the other is a brand. Sure, a deeply-rooted and admired brand.
Perhaps a better analogy would be taking the automotive industry from Australia? In that case, there may be a revolt, indeed.
And as for most Chevys being Daewoos — do your research. There’s no more Daewoo anymore; the Korean offices assist in the development of global vehicles… such as the Cruze, Sonic/Aveo/Barina Spark, Spark/Barina, and Malibu… among others. All of Chevy’s new global cars (such as the ones mentioned above) are best in class all over the world. And no, you don’t spend “alot of money making them driveable.” Have you driven a Cruze? Have you seen the new Malibu or Sonic/Barina Spark. Those are world-class products that kick their segment’s ass, plain and simple.
This is more from people whose understanding of brands and culture doesn’t extend out of their own country.
The Holden piece of myopia comes from the same logic as taking the one brand that has real American equity – Chevrolet – and re-badging a bunch of cheap, poorly credentialed cars Korean cars with this icon – burning its hard-earned credibility from this poorly research piece of strategy.
The Dudes from Detroit need to get on a plane out of their own country and see the rest of the world. It’ll save their shareholders a packet and will save the rest of the world having their cultural imperialism hoisted on it needlessly by poorly thought out pieces of strategy based on what works in Detroit.
Ahhh ! I finally took the author’s much-repeated hint and checked his bio. And now the joke is revealed. Alex openly confesses to being a Chevy-fanboy, his seminal experience having been off-roading it in a Chevy Blazer while growing up as a kid in Russia. Alex, you should have confessed to editorial bias at the outset – that was a once-proud principle of journalism, but perhaps not so much so in these Murdoch Days.
Quite why you’d pick a Chevy Blazer as the primo choice for Russian off-roading, I don’t know ( I know whereof I speak having married a Russian and lived, worked, travelled there ). I once had the chance to pilot a Humvee through the countryside there and that WAS fun – felt like shoving an A-10 Warthog around on wheels ( and consumed pretty much the same amount of fuel !)
So, Alex loves Chevy almost as much as many Aussies love Holden. The old rule of never engaging in debate about a man’s religion now comes to the fore. Neither Alex nor the Aussies are actually capable of hearing the others’ thoughts on this topic, let along changing each others’ minds.
Looks like you caught me! 🙂
I guess that bio is a bit outdated… but I love GM in general — along with all cars. Honestly, though, I don’t think I have a bias towards Chevy — but then again, I’ve never come into contact with a Holden wearing a Holden badge (although I’ve driven more than a few Pontiac G8s and GTOs). The article is much more a business-related piece rather than a sentimental “I like this brand so it should be all over the place” thing.
PS: The Blazer has been voted as the best vehicle for the brutal Russian roads (at that time) for a few years running when I lived there. It was my dad’s company car as well. It’s tough and durable and can take the beating of the weather and the unrefined roads.
PS: congrats on being married to a Russian 🙂
You, it pains me to say this, but American cars have a tarnished reputation. There’s no denying that. I find it funny that Americans don’t even want American cars and settle for Toyotas and Hondas. I find it even funnier when I see one the “good ole boys” riding around here with a Confederate flag or a Harley Davidson decal on their Nissan pick up truck. I will say this, but American GMs look a lot better than Holdens IMO. When I saw the Monaro come over here as a GTO, my first reaction was “Wow, is that the new Grand Prix!!?” that’s just my opinion on looks since someone mentioned that Detroit puts out cars that look like a 5 year old scribbled with a crayon. Now, finally I will say that Holden be be left alone. It’s nothing wrong with having Holden stay Holden. If they’re selling good and not causing GM to lose a profit, keep it as is!!
Fuck Off…..mate.
‘At a boy! That’s the way you take a heated yet constructed debate into a pissing contest. Good one!
WOW, some people can’t say anything sensible I see!!
Thanks Alex, it was a good one, however your condescencion just makes it all the more obvious how much of an arrogant pompous douchebag you really are. You see, although you think that when it comes to intellegence you’re the bees knees, youre fucken’ wrong. I was not trying to turn a ‘heated yet constructed debate into a pissing contest.’ (stupid sentence by the way), it’s just there is simply no point debating with such a stupid suggestion! I’m sure I spoke an behalf of many many Australians when I told you my first reaction to your ‘idea’, which was “Fuck Off!”, Soooo fuck off, mate (see what I did there, and before? I used the word mate to emphasise the fact that im Australian and you’re not, so leave our Holden alone). Pretty clever hey, now I’m winning the pissing contest!
Mate, us Australians love our Holdens okay. The fact is that for over 150years they have been building cars and engines that are perfect for the Australian conditions They might not be as high-tech or pretty as euro or jap cars, but they have it where it counts. Reliable engines, cheap parts, long life span, roomy, power, low revs at speed with plenty left for over taking. High torque, low revving @ 100kph motors, providing power to roomy, comfortable, and good looking cars are what we’ve needed and they have delivered.
And I simply don’t see Holden going away. It’s one of those pillars of General Motors that — in my opinion — will never die.
Long LIve The Lion
I just won the pissing contest!
Unless you have some more urine left in you that is. But I doubt it, you’re just full of shit.
=)
One more thing, I really dont care about all those barina etc that you speak of, change them to Chev what ever, I really care about Commodore’s. Specifically that beautiful, rare, two door Commodore I drive called a Holden Monaro cv8 Z (yeah baby), I love her so much, no shit we actually have a bond, and I want her to to always be a Holden Monaro. I’m going to keep her for my whole life dude, cause she is going to be an absolute classic, a beatiful treasure, a gem of Australian car design.
Now if what you suggesting happens, in 20 – 30 years when I’m cruising in my car (if some emmission laws dont come in that make it illegal to drive cars like mine with her big, throaty, raw 6.0l v8 – im so scared of this happening) and somebody goes, “hey mate, what sort of car is that?”.
And then I reply with a proud smile, “It’s a Holden Monaro, cv8z mate.”
“Oh you mean a Chevrolet Camaro?”
See what I mean……. this cannot happen Alex.
Also, what about HSV? Please don’t tell me you would change that to CSV? Fuck you would, wouldn’t you?
No, No, No. This is so wrong. Can you please admit that you are way over your head it mate. Just end it now. Go do something else.
I’m not going to stoop to your level in discussing bodily excretions or calling people I’ve never even met supercilious names… mate. My suggestion, which works online and offline, is to contribute to the conversation with credible facts and thought-out suggestions/arguments.
That said, it’s more than obvious that your feelings are clouding your judgement of an obviously simple business decision. And you should give this follow-up article a read — it should make you feel better.
Alex
Everybody stop for a second. This is a discussion about automobiles, not who’s getting the last girl on Earth, so please quit with the vulgar language and verbal trashing. While this is a heated discussion, it should not be one that shows hatred towards people from one country to another. Heated arguments are good, just try not to let your personal feelings get in the way. Now, if we can continue……..
If there were a “like comment” button, I would be all over that right now. Looks like I’ll need to get on that! 🙂
Ah Alex…you’ve really opened a powder keg, haven’t you? As to me daring to offer advice to a opinionated journalist…why not? Isn’t that what you are doing with your piece about Holden? Tit for tat, mate. 🙂
I think people above summed up nicely how I was going to reply to you.
GM can brand the Daewoos any which way (I don’t really care in this respect) they want BUT, you see, in Australia they call them Holdens. FACT: Before the Daewoos were badged as Holdens they sold in pitiful numbers. Daewoo was even in the process of shutting up shop here. Once the Rampant Lion was placed on their arses and grills they started selling like hotcakes. Understand, Alex? It’s the Lion that sells, not the poofy bow tie. 🙂
Your provocative article has certainly raised the ire of many die-hard Holden fans. And, I suppose, it’s a good thing to be rankled in this way occasionally lest you become too complacent about the things you love. In this respect I commend your wordsmithing in getting the ball rolling, so to speak. However…the final decision rests with GM and, guess what? Holdens is Holdens and Chevs is Chevs and, that’s the way, uh-huh, uh-huh we like it, uh-huh, uh-huh….Ooopoh oooh oooh a oooh ooh oooh ooh ooh! (I’d poke my tongue out at this stage but that’d be pointless overkill, me thinks!). 🙂 😉
“Once the Rampant Lion was placed on their arses and grills they started selling like hotcakes.”
Interesting. Very interesting.
PS: I’m always one for a good (civil) discussion 🙂
To fellow Aussies & Kiwis – GM has CLOSED some of its AMERICAN brands in the last 5 years. Don’t think that Holden will forever be exempt from closure or rebranding. It could happen. I don’t think it would happen anytime soon, but Alex’s post/replies has mentioned a timescale of twenty years. A brand change could occur in that time. Who knows what the Aussie car industry will look like in 2021, let alone 2031!
Please don’t direct any hate at Alex – he was merely posting something that he could envision GM doing to consolidate. If there’s ANYONE you should direct any concerns towards, it’s GM. And only then if there’s wind of them actually thinking about doing it.
@Alex – I hope one thing you can take positively from the replies, is that Holden fans are very brand passionate. Moreso than Pontiac’s were/are. The Holden/Ford thing here is very deep and yes, tribal.
*If* there was to be Holden rebranding, I think “GM” would be better than Chevrolet. Holden at one point was called “GM Holden” (so GM wouldn’t be confused for SUV brand GMC here) GM is recognised by Holden fans as the parent company of Holden. It would make no sense for Holdens to be rebranded as a sister (or little sister) brand. If anything, a Holden rebrand should go upscale – Caddy or Buick. But I would prefer GM if anything.
I guess I see a rebranding of Holden as any Chev/Buick/Caddy (& Pontiac) fan would see those brands being renamed/merged for a “simpler GM”. Apart from “your team” never being the same – it currently would make no business sense. People know what Chev/Buick/Caddy cars are, and who they’re aimed at. Same with Holden in Oceania. Local media tries to position Holden and Chevrolet on the same tier within GM, but I’d say that Holden spand GM’s levels. The down-to-earth, family and fleet cars of Chev, the refinement and luxury of Buick, the sport of Chev/Corvette, & the inexpensiveness of Daewoo (Chev Korea).
Alex,
What exactly are you an authority on? Certainly not General Motors.
In your article you referred to the Cruze and Captiva being Chevrolets rebadged in Australia and New Zealand as Holdens. Are you for real?
Both cars are designed and developed by GM Holden in Australia and built by GMDAT (now known as GM Korea) which is oddly a subsidiary of GM Holden. Holden has a seat on the board of GM Korea.
I dont see you suggesting that Vauxhall or Opel change their names to Chevrolet. Why Holden?
I understand your motivation for making Chevrolet a global brand like Ford, but there is a significant issue that you are overlooking. Ford is a company, chevrolet it a brand.
This is really a silly debate to be having because it really doesn’t matter what Aussies and Kiwis call their GMs. If any GM market wants them, they’ll rename them as has Pontiac, Chevrolet, Vauxhall and Buick in Asia.
I really don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just WRONG. They were developed by General Motors’ global operations, meaning by and large AMERICAN. They’re manufactured where it’s cheapest, which is sometimes Korea, and sometimes Australia.
The only car Holden actually designs is the Commodore. Everything else is from General Motors. Holden is barely a step above a brand. The only reason GM Daewoo stock was owned by Holden is because Holden happens to be GM’s subsidiary in that part of the world.
Australians really do have an over exagerated view of their place in the global economy. You design two (soon to be just ONE) car and sell rocks to the Chinese. That’s it.
Very true — this mirrors my point of view to the T.
Aussies and true Holden fans aren’t passionate about the Barina Spark, Barina, Epica, Cruze, or Captiva. They only seem to care about one car — the Commodore. And I’m not sure that will stick around over the next 10 years. Reality be damned! 😉
Footyfield,
“What exactly are you an authority on? Certainly not General Motors.”
– Thanks… I’ll certainly take your word for it!
“In your article you referred to the Cruze and Captiva being Chevrolets rebadged in Australia and New Zealand as Holdens. Are you for real? Both cars are designed and developed by GM Holden in Australia and built by GMDAT (now known as GM Korea) which is oddly a subsidiary of GM Holden. Holden has a seat on the board of GM Korea.”
– Wrong again, sonny boy! The Cruze… nor the Captiva were “designed and developed by Holden in Australia.” These are global GM vehicles with significant input from 1) GM Europe, 2) GMDAT, and 3) GMNA. I think you’re referring to the most recent FACELIFT of both models, which — as far as I know — was conducted in Australia.
Even so, as GM moves to a truly global vehicle and brand lineup (as business calls for it), we will see more and more of a global engineering, design, and development effort for all of The General’s cars (most likely Commodore, Ute, and Statesman aside). And even today, it’s very difficult to pinpoint where vehicles — such as the Cruze, Captiva, Sonic/Aveo/Barina Spark, and the new Malibu — were designed, engineered, and developed (again, Commodore, Ute, Statesman aside). What’s more, we will see an even deeper global design and development effort from GM with the next-generation Captiva/Antara and Chevy Equinox/GMC Terrain — since all of these compact-midsize crossovers will, as far as I’ve been told, become a single global vehicle (with perhaps two wheelbases).
“I dont see you suggesting that Vauxhall or Opel change their names to Chevrolet. Why Holden?”
– Because Opel and Vauxhall are sold ALONGSIDE Chevy in Europe. As Chevy becomes a global brand (as it needs to), Opel/Vauxhall will move to occupy a different position in the market. This has previously been discussed publicly by GM Europe CEO Nick Reilly. In fact, having Chevy as well as Opel/Vauxhall in the same market gives GM the opportunity to do something interesting — something along the lines of what Hyundai and Kia are doing in the U.S. market. Hyundai is the conservative and comfortable Toyota/Honda/Chevy/Ford competitor while Kia caters to the more sporty, expressive (younger?) enthusiast crowd. Most models in the Hyundai/Kia line-up are based on the same platforms, but wear totally different top hats with different suspension tunes, etc.
“I understand your motivation for making Chevrolet a global brand like Ford, but there is a significant issue that you are overlooking. Ford is a company, chevrolet it a brand.”
– I think you’re the one overlooking the issue here. Yes, Ford is a company (Ford Motor Company). But Ford is — first and foremost — a brand!
When people buy a Ford, they don’t buy a “Ford Motor Company.” They buy a Ford (a brand). The same goes for Lincoln. And the same holds true for GM’s brands. The parent company, Ford, could be called “Crazy American Auto Company” — and it wouldn’t make a difference to consumers.
That’s why GM, especially after the bankruptcy, began to de-emphasize its presence in its product portfolio, instead focusing on the individual brands like Chevy, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac. At the end of the day, people don’t buy GMs. They buy Chevys, Holdens, etc.
“This is really a silly debate to be having because it really doesn’t matter what Aussies and Kiwis call their GMs. If any GM market wants them, they’ll rename them as has Pontiac, Chevrolet, Vauxhall and Buick in Asia.”
– I believe (and this is my personal opinion) that The General is moving away from this strategy. Over the next 15-20 years, as consumers become even more interconnected and commerce, along with conversations, across borders continues to increase, it will become increasingly difficult to compete without a global brand. Pontiac is done. Buick, again — in my opinion, should go global with a unique product portfolio. Chevrolet is global — for the exception of Oceania. Vauxhall is present in one country — and I see that changing as well (similarly to how I recommended Holden be gradually renamed to Chevy).
Alex,
Perhaps you really have no idea about the role that Holden plays in GM global design. I’m sure you’ve heard of Mike Simcoe. If not, the attached articles make my point.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/E3C4A1CD50DCAD12CA25768400821FE3
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/5B3EE4915837D0C7CA2577DB007B2D65
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/mike-simcoe-appointed-executive-director-gm-international-operations-design-97436/
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/8B2323669A54F666CA2577ED0000D2E0
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/holden-to-design-small-hatch-and-explore-plugin-hybrid-20090112-146es.html
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/8F74F4EE7AD246CACA256E6D000EBED1
Global design? Sure. But that’s not what you stated previously, is it?
“Both cars are designed and developed by GM Holden in Australia and built by GMDAT (now known as GM Korea) which is oddly a subsidiary of GM Holden. Holden has a seat on the board of GM Korea.”
You suggest, nay — openly state, that both cars were the sole creation of Holden… which could not be further from the truth. Does Holden play a role in the global design and development of vehicles other than Zeta-based Commodore, Statesman, and Ute? Sure! Are they solely responsible for any of these vehicles? Not at all.
Are we in agreement there?
After reading through the articles you posted, I think you’ve actually brought more credence to the point I made in my first response to your comment as well as to the original article: Holden is part of GM’s GLOBAL design, development, and engineering efforts (a point I never argued, by the way — I just think it’s inaccurate to state that Holden is completely responsible for the development of certain vehicles outside of the Zeta products). That being the case, why NOT bring Chevy into the fold in Australia if Holden already helps build Chevys for GM all over the world!?
PS: the fact that Holden was responsible for the Cruze hatch doesn’t really count… the hatch is a variant of the sedan. The original engineering (the most difficult part) was done in Korea and in Europe, with help from GMNA and GM Holden.
“Are we in agreement there?”
Almost! I really think you need to look at the role Holden plays in global design.
I never said either vehicle was solely the work of Holden but they did design these cars. You were the one who suggested that Holden simply ‘badge-engineered’ them.
Alrighty. Well, I’m well aware of Holden’s role in design; although I’m not so sure about engineering and logistics/procurement as it relates to global vehicles (outside of Zeta).
Whatever it may be, doesn’t it further support the original article? If Holden assists in making Chevys, why not call them Chevys? Keep the cars people really care about being Holdens (Commodore, Statesman, Ute) as Holdens, but slowly bring everything else (Barina, Barina Spark, Cruze, Captiva) under the Chevy name?
Perhaps without these vehicles in their line-up, Holden couldn’t afford to continue building the Commodore.
If it’s good enough for Chevrolet to rebadge Statesman’s as Caprice and possibly Ute as El Camino; Pontiac to rebadge Commodore as G8 and Monaro as GTO, sure it doesn’t matter what we do with global cars.
I suspect we have heard from a lot of Aussies but no Kiwis, though this point was touched upon by one commenter above: the ever-present spectre of anti-Americanism.
It’s probably not as strong in Australia, but, sadly, and not always for the right reasons, it is very present here in New Zealand.
Chevrolet’s brand equity comes with baggage—namely its country of origin. Traditionally, American marques (and I am talking about the consumer perception, as we all know Holden is American-owned) have not done well in New Zealand, with the exception of Ford itself. And Ford, meanwhile, trades on the (false) perception of being ‘British’ for older buyers, or ‘Australian’ or even ‘German’. The Taurus was a flop here (and Australia), possibly because of the country-of-origin effect.
Interestingly, Alex, in 1992, I wrote an article not too far from what you propose. Since all Holden sold in New Zealand were Opels (at this time), apart from the large cars, why not just brand them all Opels? It’s been shown time and time again that the two countries have very different tastes—we even sold an Isuzu Aska as the Holden Camira rather than the Australian model—so let’s embrace it. My arguments were not too far from yours, either.
GM New Zealand, in 1992, was at the end of a period of trying to use, foolishly, GM as the marque, which so happened to field Holden Barina, Pontiac Le Mans, Opel Vectra and Holden Commodore. ‘How can you build a brand when you have no brand?’ I asked.
In 1994, they sort of took that advice—but instead of Opel, everything became Holden (with a brief exception in the late 1990s, when a few Isuzu Wizards made it into New Zealand, before they were promptly renamed Jackaroo). But you’ve covered that bit above.
The fact that Holden now sells a lot of cars designed and engineered at Daewoo, and I imagine, with a majority of Korean workers with foreign input, doesn’t really mean we should brand them all Daewoo, or Chevrolet, or anything else. The other marques come with too many negative connotations, while Holden is a known quantity, tied in not just to the culture, as others have pointed out, but “masculinity”.
Australia and New Zealand are two countries where Mazda has its highest market share with its current range—and it is probably no surprise to find that it’s tied in to adventure, sports, and masculinity. These are blokey countries, and a car brand has to have an element of that. Holden has that element in spades for reasons too lengthy to go into here.
The other point is this: Holden only began selling Daewoos in the mid-2000s. Before that, Holden had a decade and a half selling Opels. And even earlier, Holden managed to field a decent range of Toranas and full-size cars before US management tampering ordered that they handle like pigs and that the Torana wheelbase be reduced from the LH series prototypes. It’s another reason for some anti-Americanism to emerge: Detroit almost killed Holden, which was nearly bankrupt a generation ago.
While I realize you state that this is a long-term plan, there is nothing in GM strategy to say that the Daewoo—now Chevrolet—situation is going to be around forever. Sure we can’t see Holden returning to developing a full range by itself—the world is too globalized for that—but what if the Cruze is replaced some time in the future by the next Astra K? The Astra H was only just deleted from the ranges here, so the Opel connection hasn’t disappeared altogether.
The New Zealand market is more open than the Australian one, often to our disadvantage. But it means GM is losing a battle here with the exception of Commodore, because Ford has been able to bring in German-designed and, sometimes, German-built, models without tax penalties. Fiesta outsells Gentra. Focus outsells Lacetti. Mondeo outsells Tosca. If Holden New Zealand wishes to remain competitive, it’s not inconceivable or unprecedented that we go our own way and bring in Corsa E, Astra J or Insignia.
Holden is a brand under which goods are sold. Just as Coca-Cola preserves the local brands it has acquired over the years and sells a variety of goods under them, GM does the same with Holden, because it cannot predict the future origin of these goods.
So, it may well be possible that mid-decade we are looking at the 1995 situation again, where Holden sells Opels—but badged as Chevrolets? It wouldn’t make much sense for unified marketing costs.
The other point which I wanted to acknowledge is the one about owner discussions. Australians and New Zealanders know we live in less populous countries, and, sometimes, we’re proud of our differences. We are smart enough to realize that when an American is talking about his Pontiac G8, we know he is talking about a Commodore. Or when a Spaniard is talking about her Chevrolet Aveo, we know she is talking about what we call a Holden Barina. On Top Gear, they all know the Vauxhall VXR8 is a Holden, and say so. I don’t believe communications is a problem, not for people who would talk about cars.
Now, on global campaigns, I’m sure you’ve seen the way cars are promoted in many nations. The hard-sell techniques used in US advertising, for instance, would never wash here. Cars tend to be sold more cheekily and humorously. Or, the ads tend to be more lifestyle-oriented. A campaign such as the one for the 2001 Grand Prix and its wide track, for example, would flop completely here and encounter consumer resistance. Antipodeans, if I may speak for the Aussies as well, are far subtler when it comes to marketing. GM would shoot itself in the foot and even in 20 years’ time, the culture won’t have changed sufficiently if you look at the state of automotive advertising over the last 20 (or even 30). In fact, we like to think of our marketing techniques as more sophisticated than the typical US ones. I make no claim on whether we are right in thinking that.
Alex, I am not dismissing your idea as lacking merit. I see your points, and goodness knows the Japanese and Ford have done it for years. But this is one case where Levitt, the convergence of markets, and globalization just wouldn’t work as well as the theory might state—because too many exceptions exist to the rule.
Okay ,,,tell me why these guys buy a new Holden then PULL OFF the Holden Lion Badge and put a chevy bowtie on the thing,,,,is that pathetic or what,,,when all holdens are badged as Chevs these dickheads will probably put the holden badge on again…….
How many, Owen? One out of a thousand? Ten thousand? They do it for the same reason some buyers put on new alloy wheels or add spoilers. Some people love uniqueness.
In the words of Holden, “absurd”. This may work for markets where local GM products don’t have such a following such as Europe and Asia, but not here, simply because of the history and cultural importance Holden plays to Australia. It’d be like renaming Vegemite into a comparable American brand.
But I don’t think you’re arguement that GM will loose to the ‘One Ford’ policy flies either. Because it’s just not Falcon sales that are lagging in Australia, even the models that are going gangbusters in other markets (Mondeo, Focus) are lagging too. If anything, I think the introduction of the ‘One Ford’ policy in Australia will be a boon for Holden, because many Falcon owners (myself included), whilst being long-time Blue Oval men, buy the Falcon because it is Australia-developed and built.
You see, whilst you say you have taken the cultural importance of the Holden name into account, I don’t think you really have. To understand our aversion to renaming Holden you have to understand Australia. We’re much like the US, proud of our institutions and, because of the vast size of our island nation, we have a great affinity with the motor car. You could do this in Europe and Asia and no one battered an eyelid, but even in Australia, I’ll think you’ll find that even non-enthusiasts would be turned off buying an ‘Aussie Chev’ not because of the quality or attributes of the car, but what the name represents to Australia as a whole.
But it is not just Australian culture that I believe would prohibit a name change but internal GM culture. As much as it saddens me to say it, as a long-time Ford man (I don’t go in for the Ford vs Holden thing, I love them both!) as opposed to Ford, who seem embarrassed that their Australian operation produces a world class, RWD sedan on a budget that many carmakers would use for their door handles GM has fully embraced Holden and many of its Australian employees. A certain Mark Reuss in particular!
And with the addition of GM products alongside our home-grown Commodore, expect Holden to flourish far into the future.
Cheers,
Adam.
Hey Adam — thanks for your thoughtful comment.
I think it will be interesting to see how Ford does with One Ford in Australia. My prediction? They will be the most popular “non-Australian” automaker… so they’ll be most popular not counting Holden. And I think they have much potential to overtake Holden and the Commodore, especially with global vehicle development that leads to the best products.
We’ll see!
Alex
Ultimately if this does happen it will be to kill off local production in Australia, which means the end of the Commodore.
Since Australia is such a small market, you may as well kill off the Holden brand. Sure the backlash in Australia would mean that Chevrolet never ever recover the top sales spot that Holden has held on or off for 50 years, but I suppose if the company is intent of suicide, then the best way is to make everyone hate you so that they don’t feel sorry for it.
Good work Chevrolet. Shoot yourself in the head. Aussies will not only laugh, but point and laugh.
I think it’s funny how self-centered you Australians are. General Motors could pull out of Australia entirely and it wouldn’t dent their bottom line.
Holden exists because it is allowed to exist. Deal with it.
It would. Camaro is Australian-engineered. The full-size Chevrolets, on which GM makes a healthy profit in the Middle East and Brazil, would disappear. Nice exaggeration, but not accurate.
Jack — you’re right. The Zeta platform has its roots in Australia — although the Camaro has received many changes compared to a Commodore.
That said, Zeta development could move elsewhere, since GM is a global company with many engineering resources at its disposal. Just sayin’ 🙂
Did you hear the same thing? I know several people within GM’s legal apparatus (think patents) who have said that the platform that will replace Zeta for Holden, which may or may not have the designation “Zeta 2,” is actually being shifted to Detroit.
People don’t want to realize it, but Holden’s expertise is NOT with RWD. That is a myth. For 50 years, Holden’s “rear wheel drive expertise” was nothing more than rebadging Opel’s or American Chevrolet’s. Holden does have some expertise: that is, engineering things cheap and for a lot of different markets. That’s a real asset in this environment.
So, what we may see, is Holden’s engineering arm becoming a further part of GM corporate, but them actually losing Commodore. It makes more sense that way, anyway.
Kind of been hearing some stuff coming through the gravevine.
With the Alpha to underpin the next-gen Camaro (and Caddy CTS + ATS) and the Alpha’s bigger Omega variant set to underpin the true Cadillac flagship, the New “lean and mean” GM seems to be having a hard time building a business case for the Zeta to continue. If anything, the Alpha seems to be the go-to platform for future Commodores, especially that they only sell about 50,000 units a year.
@Andrew I don’t think it would have to mean the end of local production. Chevys could continue to be manufactured in Australia – just like the Cruze (a Chevy everywhere else except for UK) and Captiva (Saturn/Opel) are made there now.
Most, if not all nations are self centered. Just look at the U.S.A. They claim they hate terrorism, yet they go into Pakistan and create their own form of tyranny by shooting Bin Laden without giving him a fair trial. Saddam Hussein was given a trial.
Holden exists because it has been very successful.
Let’s not get off the subject at hand and turn this political. Although GM does need to go global, they can just leave Holden as is. It’s too small of a company to even worry about. I bet 85% of the American population doesn’t even know Holden exists. Australia has got to have something else good besides their delicious kangaroo meat!!
Holden name should be kept on Cars made in Australia.
However The upcoming VOLT should be a Chevy Volt not a
Holden Volt or a Opel ampera. 🙂
Keep the car from where they are ddesigned / sorced with their true name,
then people can see clearlery they are buying Holden/ Chevy/Opel etc.
With these rebadges we are kidding ourselves!
No Martin, we’re not kidding OURSELVES, but GM and other companies are kidding the Naive buyers. My Mom and Dad have. 2001 Mazda Tribute. They didn’t even realize it was a rebadged Ford Escape. It’ll never be back the way it was. Now a days you have MINI Coopers from BMW supplied with engines from Chrysler (1st Gen) and Peugeout (2nd Gen). For a long time Honda couldn’t even make their own truck or minivan. They had to outsource Isuzu. Nah, we can’t ever truly say were driving a certain brands car with all the Frankensteining and outsourcing that’s happening.
There’s a guy on base down here that has a yellow GTO, which he replaced the badging for Holden and Monaro emblems. Uniqueness is the key in today’s auto world!!
Why would Aussies want Chevrolet to come down under? Chevrolet doesn’t have anything in its inventory that can compete with Holden’s Commodore, at-any-level. While the Camaro proves itself to be a true pony car, it’s still really a two-door Commodore. The rest of Chevy’s inventory comes from GM Korea (let’s forget about the irrelevant large SUV range, Aussies aren’t going to fork out the money for rubbish engineering).
So why bother replacing a true Aussie icon with a brand that isn’t synonymous with quality and good design? Before you fire back, I have sampled the latest two generations of your Impalas (that are based on a 20 year old platform) and one word comes to mind, rubbish!
Not sure if you’ve followed the conversation so far, but you kind of have it backwards.
“The rest of Chevy’s inventory comes from GM Korea (let’s forget about the irrelevant large SUV range, Aussies aren’t going to fork out the money for rubbish engineering).”
The Cruze, next-gen Barina, the Epica replacement — the Malibu, and the Captiva are all global engineering efforts and are the best in their respective classes — not “rubbish engineering.” It’s world-class engineering — and while they’re sold as Holdens in Australia, they’re Chevys everywhere else!
And as far as the Impala is concerned, yes — it is 20 years old — maybe even older. Ironically, it sells more units in a month in the US than the Commodore sells in an entire year in Australia. Why don’t we talk when we see the next-gen Impala in 2013…
Alex,
Just when I thought we reached agreement, you downplay Holden’s involvement in the development of the Camaro. No recognition for their design and development, just the platform it’s built on.
If the Zeta platform is so unimpressive by your standards, why did it beat every car manufactured in North America in recent testing by LA County Sherrifs Department? It was in fact the only car to score a perfect 10/10 including protypes of the new Ford Interceptor.
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/holden-beats-ford-in-copcar-shootout-20110517-1eqox.html
What’s your point? A Zeta-based car beat a non-Zeta based car in one competition held by one entity on one day. Your argument would hold up for approximately three seconds in any sort of academic or legal situation. Saying “Well, the Johnson family bought a Mazda 3 over a Pontiac G8, so the Mazda is clearly better!” holds as much weight.
Hey, want to know something funny? Zeta – excluding Camaro – sold less than 50,000 copies last year. It’s irrelevant.
@Footyfield – I don’t think I ever mentioned that the Zeta is unimpressive. But it simply isn’t very popular outside the Camaro. Sure, the Commodore sells 50,000/year… and the Statesman/Ute probably add 10,000-15,000 to that number. But how much longer will the Zeta be around? With the Camaro moving to the Alpha architecture and the rumored Omega being a bigger Alpha, Zeta no longer seems to have a place. So how long until it goes away? Not sure if we’ll see a next-gen Zeta.
Lastly, I don’t think I’ve ever questioned Holden’s engineering prowess. But as far as the Camaro goes, that’s much more of an American effort — especially the design. The underpinnings are mostly Holden; but the powerplants, design, logistsics/sourcing are all GMNA. Not sure why you believe Holden was involved in those areas.
Man up and put your name to your posts, dont hide behind anonymity.
50,000 zeta sales is laughable. The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries in Australia lists figures suggesting that in 2010 Holden Commodore sales were 45,956. On top of that is Ute and Statesman/Caprice sales in Australia. Then there are the export of those three vehicles to New Zealand plus exports to the Middle East, Brazil, Korea and the UK.
Yeah, Holden PR has done a great job into brainwashing everyone into thinking that Commodore is loved and envied all over the world. It’s sold there, yes. But how many Vauxhall Commodores, or whatever it’s called this week, do you think are on the road in England right now? Three?
Oh, by the way, the Taurus Police Interceptor also got a 10 on that LAPD test. You know, an American designed, FWD vehicle. The same one that’s replacing Falcon.
I will love GM if they replaced the Holden badge with chevy. The first thing i will do is buy a chevy in Aus when that happens.
Absolutely not!
Holden should definitely stay put. If you were to replace the Holden brand with the Chevrolet brand, you would loose a lot of Australian and NZ customers. The Australian Federal Government has already signed a deal to secure Holden for a few more years. The US already buys a lot of Holden vehicles too, such as the Chevy Caprice, which is actually a Holden Caprice assembled and built in Australia and then shipped over to the US for their police cars. Places such as LA, Georgia, Ohio and other states in the US, have bought over 3,000 Holden Caprices (Australian made and designed) per state to use as police cars, as it is superior to the American made Pontiac and Chevrolet cars, they have just been rebadged to look local. Therefore, giving Australia and Holden no credit what so ever, and so it makes me wonder why we don’t replace some of the Chevrolet brand with Holden worldwide. This also makes me ask the question… why not replace Vauxhall and Opel?
Holden should stay put, we don’t need the US taking over more Australian companies and trying to reign the world. To end my comment, like Holden did, I would say that this is “Obsurd!”.
John, I think you may be misunderstanding the issue at hand. No one is suggesting to wipe out Holden from the face of the planet, including the production, development/engineering, or design operations. Rather, what I was suggesting was to simply swap brands; not immediately, not tomorrow, or the day after — but do so gradually and over the course of, perhaps, 10 years.
The fact of the matter is that 90% of the Holden lineup is already rebadged Chevys. Outside of the Zeta-platformed vehicles, the Holden lineup is *fully* made up of Chevys. And I’d bet that the people who really care about the Holden brand dearly are those who buy a Zeta-based vehicle; most everyone who buys a Holden-badged Chevrolet most likely do not do so solely based in the badge/brand.
Furthermore, your suggestion to replace Chevy, Opel, or Vauxhall with Holden is the definition of absurd. Sure, Zeta-based vehicles are great — and they should be sold all over the world (i.e. your Caprice example). So, in replacing Holden, you’d be replacing the brand (again, gradually) in 2 major countries. In replacing any of the others, you’re talking doing so across the world!
Ultimately, regional brands (Holden) are on their way out. Whether Holden is replaced sooner or later is a matter of eventual necessity, not that of a question. Again, we’re only taking about switching nameplates here, not wiping out operational units.
Yes, I can see what you mean, however, and I am not trying to argue with you, I believe that even trying to phase out the Holden brand over 10 years would still affect many Australians. I mean it’s too much of an Australian icon. Holden opened in 1856 about 156 years ago. It’s much like other iconic Australian companies such as Qantas for example, Qantas has been open since 1920, it’s the world’s most experienced airline and it is the world’s second longest continually running airline. If that was to close, even gradually over 10 years, Australians would feel it and notice it, I feel that this too would happen with Holden. I do agree that Chevy should make its way over to Australia to be more of a predominant brand, however I feel that Holden would be missed greatly and therefore you would loose a lot of sales in Australia and Oceania for GM and although it may be more expensive and wouldn’t improve Chevy’s chances in Australia, the only way Chevy can come is if it comes as a standalone company instead of a Holden replacement. Perhaps they could work side-by-side.
I don’t think you would ever be able to phase out such an Australian icon, much like Qantas for example.
It also appears that other than Holden exporting Caprices over to North America, Holden also exported the Commodore over to North America, which was then rebadged as the Pontiac G8, until Pontiac’s downfall a few years ago as well as to Europe as a Vauxhall branded vehicle. There are quite a few vehicles in North America which are exported Australian Holdens. The LA Police Department has purchased over 3,000 Holden Caprices to use as their patrol cars as they feature technical systems not seen on other vehicles. Therefore, I believe Holden is a valuable brand to keep alive, and even though it may just be changing a badge and a name, I would and I’m sure other Australians would rather buy a car if it had the Holden badge on it, rather than an international overseas brand such as Chevy, Toyota or Mitsubishi as we would know it’s Australian made and we would be supporting local companies and not international brands.
Dear Alex Luft, on behalf of all Australians
*** off, ***.
Holden is the best part of GM, if anything Chevrolet should be replaced by Holden. why not? the best GM cars already come from Holden. the G8, the GTO, the Camaro, the Caprice were all Australian designed and engineered and with the exception of the Camaro Australian built too.
Holden pre-dates Chevrolet by more than 50 years and makes far superiour cars, so perhaps if you Americans stopped to consider the OUTRAGEOUS possibility of selling Holdens as Holdens in America and Europe perhaps you would realise that “American” will never be as much of a byword for quality as “Australian” is
Dear Rasputin Varez, on behalf of myself: attaboy!
You really make a compelling argument, especially with your opener. Keep on keeping on!
Hey Rasputin! Why don’t you take your Aussie-focused worldview and shove it. More cars are sold in the state of Texas (one of the 50 U.S. states) than in all of Australia combined. Aussies don’t get to dictate squat to Americans. Do you understand simple economics?
Holden would not even be around today if it wasn’t for GM… or be what it is today with GM (or Chevy). You clearly don’t understand simple business concepts so on behalf of the rest of the world, suck it, moron. And good job being about a year too late to the party. Idiot.
Take note that there are more car companies selling in Aus than there are in USA.
I think we should just stop responding seriously to some people, their not worth the effort, you can make as many reasonable, simple, and accurate arguments and state as much facts as you want , but people like Rasputin and Monaula(though he is much more civil) dont really deserve a decent reply. Its kind of difficult to avoid the temptation of responding with the right information though.
Agreed on all accounts 🙂
Alex what we should have is a “troll” button. So morons like Moanalua and others (ridiculous rasputin) comments are hidden by default, or not even shown at all. Can you do that?
Thanks for the suggestion, Silent. We’ll have to look into that… it’s a fine line, though, to determine which comments should show and which should not. So that’s something that we’ll need to analyze carefully before implementing it technologically.
What about Vauxhall and Opel ? Should they be re branded Chevrolet too ? Frankly I don’t see the need. They are all under the GM banner and GM is known world wide.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it !
I know we are into an era of Globalization but… I think Australians still want to retain some individuality.
Frankly I can’t see it ever ! I cannot see Chevrolet replacing the Holden name. Do it and sales will plummet !
My local Holden dealer tried this experiment. They had a red Cruze sitting on the lot but this one was different to all the others. This Cruze had the split Chevrolet grille along with badging and Bowtie !
They ended up putting it out front on display for $2000 cheaper than the Holden badged one’s because they couldn’t sell it.
True story I kid you not. It has been floated about before, long before this blog about changing Holden to Chevrolet. Each time it is met with the same cold reception.
Like I said, can’t see it ever happening. If it does happen, I can see a lot of people ripping those Chev badges off and replacing them with Holden badges or sales plummeting !
In the Middle East where Commodore and Statesman are sold as Chev’s. A lot of people there end up ordering Holden badges from here to replace the Chevrolet Badges on their cars.
You will also find on the Pontiac G8 and GTO forums that quite a few people remove the Pontiac badging and replace them with Holden SS and GTS badging.
All the G8 and GTO owners who follow my page (www.facebook.com/holdenisaustralian) have done it and are going to do it with the SS. There are already discussions on whether they’ll change the badges to Holden or even do a conversion go the Calais design or HSV Gen-F design.
REPLACE HOLDEN …. IM SICK OF THIS RE-BADGING THING!!! ITS UN LOYAL … AND CHEVROLET NEEDS TO KICK FORDS ASS WORLDWIDE
Holden already kicks Ford’s ass here but introducing the Chevy brand (which has a negative reputation already without even coming here) will be handing Ford a victory. The allies couldn’t have won WW1 or 2 without the support of several nations. GM can beat Ford but one brand (nation) is not always a good idea.
Holden4Life yet another short-sighted view. What’s being argued here is the EVENTUAL replacement of Holden with Chevrolet for the sake of global efficiencies especially as marketing and communications become more global and more importantly so…
So while Holden may be beating Ford today, don’t expect things to continue this way with Ford’s OneFord global product onslaught. In fact, you can already see the writing on the wall with Toyota being #1 or #2 in the market, clearly ahead of Holden. Guess how they got there? With a global product lineup, and naming scheme (for the mainstream products).
Silent, the reason Toyota is leading many markets is not because of their global branding and international product lineups. I’ve never heard someone say “I want to buy a Toyota, they’re such good vehicles”, they are simply bought more because they are made in Asia where labour, etc. is cheaper, which in turn allows them to be manufactured, bought and repaired cheaper. Holdens and Chevrolets on the other hand are well built Australian and American built vehicles, respectively. However, Holdens in Australia are well known as an ‘Aussie’ car and therefore are bought because of their national reputation, quality of build and design. I’m sure Chevys would sell ok in Australia eventually too, however even trying to transition them in slowly would still not solve the identity problem, especially when Chevys are large, bulky, ‘gas guzzling’ vehicles. When I see a Chevy in Australia I can tell before even seeing the badge as its body is noticeably different to those of common vehicles in our nation. The reaction to Chevy would probably be similar to our reaction to Opel, I believe many think it’s another foreign brand, taking jobs from our market, an ‘enemy’ to current brands, and another minority company such as Chrysler, Suzuki, Renault, etc. which are not viewed as the majority vehicle of choice. I’m not saying Chevys and Opels are bad vehicles, but I just don’t believe they’d work too well being introduced, let alone transitioned into the Australian market, where many would believe it’s ‘taking over’ and trying to ‘kill off’ Holden. Both are great vehicles however, people just associate with Holden more as it’s well known and familiar to us. 🙂
Silent, you couldn’t be more wrong. Ford’s global plan will and is already hurting Ford sales in Australia. Ford’s global plan will kill off the Australian fords: Falcon, Falcon Ute, Territory, FPV Sedan, FPV ute. All of these have had massive sales slumps as a result of the fear that Ford will cease Aussie production. Falcon dropped from 4th to 19th on sales chart in just a little over a year. As a result, Ford’s global products as good as they are, aren’t being bought because Ford’s reputation here has been tarnished by the eventual death of Australian icons. Mitsubishi went through the same thing when they stopped Aussie production 6 years ago. They still can’t get sales numbers up to what they were before. Toyota is 1 and Holden is 2 on sales. Toyota are only ahead of Holden because of 3 reasons: 1) Reputation for reliability, 2) They produce the Camry and the Aussie Toyota Aurion in Aus and 3) They had a huge marketing blitz in the past decade. Chevy can’t replace Holden EVER. Not becuase I’m a Holden fan but because it is stupid marketing wise. Holden’s reputation both tribal and business wise is incredibly strong, .Mike Devereux even pointed this out in responce TO THIS POST BY ALEX. The Chevy brand has a seriously bad reputation here. We Aussies hate Chevy. Very long story why we do but basically you could never bring Chevy here and replace Holden, it wouldn’t make sense to. GM can have a global product line up but badge the cars as Holden’s here and only then they’ll sell.
Holden Chief Mike Devereux was shown this article from this blog some 12 months ago and quickly poured cold water on it ! Devereux went on record to state Holden will never adopt the Chevrolet name and Holden will remain a separate identity from Chevrolet.
He stated the Holden name has to much heritage in Australia and it would be a stupid move to change it ! Devereux said Holden will still work with GM in design, development and R&D as well as sharing models but Holden will remain Holden.
you mean Chevrolet will never adopt holden?
maybe Holden should stop getting all the credit and nagging about how its “theirs”… and i dislike that Chevrolet and Holden are just trading cars like the caprice ppv for the Malibu and things like that its not very loyal for the car brands
Well it is theirs
I think the idea is that the Holden name should make way for Chevrolet. Since Ford are simply known as Ford the world over, for some, it would make sense to change Holden,Opel, Vauxhall to Chevrolet !
The thing here with that is, outside the USA Chevrolet have an image problem. Mention Chevy to most foreigners and they conjure up images of gas guzzling bloated land barges.
There’s also that little thing called patriotism too….and this is why the Germans, British and Australians are reluctant to give up their brand name.
Today’s Car industry is pretty much Global, the Cruze for example was/is originally a Daewoo Lacetti and Chevrolet redesigned it and named it Cruze. Holden designed the Cruze Hatch and soon to be released Wagon as well as doing the Engine/ Transmission tuning/mapping. Opel did the suspension on it.
I don’t think Holden themselves are actually claiming the PPV to be “theirs” or the G8 !
It is Bogan Aussie’s who pop up on various websites and say “ya know”…that thing is really a Holden. But yeah….it p%&$es me off too when Idiots do that.
AS for me, personally I couldn’t care less whether or not Holden Become known as Chevrolet.
I wouldn’t buy a Car from Chevrolet or Holden. I’m old school and refuse to buy anything that has ABS, Stability Control, Airbags, Body Control Modules and Engine Management Systems or PCM/ECU’s.
I like my cars with either an inline 6 or V8 and RWD. Definitely no Computers in it or Airbags ! Electronic ignition is about as high tech as I will go.
Moose, the Cruze was going to be a Chevy/Cruze all along; it just happened that GM Daewoo (not GM Korea) was the lead on the project and the Daewoo name was still around when the project started development. Now, Daewoo is gone and replaced by Chevy.
Other than that, I’m in agreement!
As soon as you said in-line 6 and V8, it immediately gave away that you’re a Ford Falcon lover. The PPV is a Holden except for the police equipment.
“Take note that there are more car companies selling in Aus than there are in USA.”
Manufacturers or brands? I’d dispute both.
But even if what you say is true, take note: the Australian domestic market is irrelevant compared to that of the USA. More cars are sold in the state if Texas alone than in Oz. and that’s just one of 50 states.
Removed holden replace with chevy problem solved
That would cause a major outcry by Australians, will hurt GM’s reputation, cause GM to lose all of its market share, cost millions to rebrand everything, lose potential customers during the transition, p*** off many Australian enthusiasts, greatly frustrate V8 Supercars, p*** off fans of Holden Motorsport, anger Holden fans outside of Australia
That would cause a major outcry by Australians and New Zealanders, will destroy GM’s reputation, cause GM to lose all of its market share in both countries, cost millions to rebrand everything, lose potential customers during the transition, p*** off many Australian and New Zealand enthusiasts, greatly frustrate V8 Supercars, p*** off fans of Holden Motorsport, anger Holden fans outside of Australia and NZ (and subsequently anger Pontiac fans AGAIN), will hurt Australia’s culture etc.
You can’t replace Holden.
“As soon as you said in-line 6 and V8, it immediately gave away that you’re a Ford Falcon lover.” Um… way before Holden modified the Buick V6 to go in the VN Commodore, Holden did in fact make it’s own inline 6 cylinder engines. 173ci , 179ci, 186ci, and 202ci. It is these engines I was referring to! There was also the smooth as silk 3.0ltr Nissan donk and Nissan 4spd auto in the VL Commodore with Turbo’s too which were far superior to any GM product at the time.
As for my taste’s I like both Falcon and Commodore and it is a sad state of affairs that we will lose the Falcon after 2016 being it is only the true Australian car on the market today. The VF commodore is to American and Korean in looks. It looks like a fat Daewoo and pig ugly! there is nothing in Holden’s line up that remotely appeals to me at all these days. And yes I own and drive a Commodore! Holden need to distance itself from Chev to regain it’s true identity and to dump the Daewoo/Chev models in favor of the Opel products that were more successful than the crap they slap badges on today!
Moving on to Malibu that now sells in OZ. This is a car Holden wants to fail. They don’t advertise it and unless you walked into a showroom you wouldn’t know it existed. Clearly Holden don’t give a rats whether this car sells or not. Holden’s strategy here is for the Malibu to fail which I’m betting it will in hopes to keep Commodore alive beyond 2016.
I cringe and shudder every time I see the dash and instrument binnacle in the VF ! Only just released and already it needs an urgent makeover. Get rid of the American influence and go back to European design themes like previous Commodores and it will sell better than it is. No I’m not American bashing! Just pointing out that the majority of folks here would prefer European design.
If you dont want American influence in your cars then how about you go it alone and have a car company without the financial backing of GM! You dont like the styling of America cars exterior and interior but you sure like those GM v8 s dont you!
You people in Europe and Australia need to be kissing GM’s ass cuz without our support you wouldn’t have a car company in which to complain about!
If you want cars designed for you country then start your own company!
Be thankful GM allows holden and opel to stay around!
You realise that is the stupidest thing anyone on here could have said. Even the Americans and Australians who want Chevrolet to replace Holden wouldn’t say something so idiotic.
Firstly, GM operates in Europe and Australia so that it can maintain a large market share in the international markets. With both the Europe and Australian divisions gone, GM would have an increased chance of defaulting last time it almost went bankrupt in 2009 (during their chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization), and the same in a case where the Europe and Australian divisions stayed but the US didn’t.
The point of larger companies owning others in this case is not so much reliant on funding, but more so on market share and revenue. GM may be American, but its funding, revenue and executives are widespread across the world.
Holden currently receives backing and security from the Australian Government, and therefore if it was to ‘go alone’, like you suggest, it would still remain a successful company. It just wouldn’t have a large American company over the head.
So, I’m sure many others on here would agree, including those who want Chevrolet to replace Holden; that your statement is stupid and badly thought out.
Like Moose mentioned, I’m not bashing Americans or the US, but I think everyone agrees you’re making large accusations and assumptions, as to the future of GM, without its European and Australian divisions.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/05/should-chevrolet-replace-holden-in-australia-new-zealand/#ixzz2aod2jjHE
Ah goof point but I went on current engine offerings.
It’s only stupid because you feel it is, holden is supported by Australia government and in part by GM! You really think holden would continue as a company if GM started selling cars on their own in Australia? Holden is losing money now even with all the backing they currently get!
If GM was not involved with holden then they would of been gone years ago, GM lets holden design and builds cars for them!
Don’t give me this crap about chevys will never sell in Australia, that’s the same thing they said when GM took over daewood! GM replaced daewood s with chevys in their country and a few years later GM’s are right where they were before they made the change!
You are wrong! Remember you need GM more than GM needs you! That must really hurt to know that!
I don’t think many of us really care that “We need GM more than it needs us”, most of us don’t get angry about that. Daewoo is easily replaced because it’s not as much of a national icon as Holden is to Australia. Now I’m not saying Chevrolet wouldn’t do well in Australia, as such; but more so that it won’t do as much good, as it will bad. I realize Holden has lost money, but that doesn’t mean it would fault as a company. It doesn’t receive as much backing as you seem to think either. GM lets Holden create vehicles for them, because they sell. Also because they’re more tailored to Australian and Oceanic preferences and because they’re an individual company that would naturally do that. You seem to think GM is giving Holden many liberties, when they’re really only doing what any company with international divisions does. I like GM, and I have no problem they’re American, but it seems you have some sort of vendetta against Holden, and seem to think that GM and Holden are pretty much rivals – just because one’s American and one’s Australian.
Most people on here don’t have that kind of viewpoint, rather the believe Chevrolet should replace Holden to create more of a united market, not because they’re biased towards their own country.
I have nothing against Australia I’ve visited, it’s a nice place! It’s not America by any stretch! My point is this, if holden, opel, and vauxhall and having problems selling cars then GM should replace them with chevys, buicks and Cadillacs!
If you dont want this to happen then here’s a idea you can pass around to your friends, start buying the car’s you say you love so much and stop complaining about the ones you have or one day those holdens lots will say chevy on them!
I find it funny how you don’t like chevys being sold in your country but you see no problem with ford selling fords and not some Australia car maker!
We don’t complain about our cars? The only people complaining about Holdens are those who want Chevy to replace it. Chevy and Ford are completely different things.
Fords here in Australia look exactly like Australian and European standard vehicles (such as Holdens), they’re not overbearingly large or bulky, they’re not gas guzzling, and they don’t look like mini-tanks. Fords are also a whole other company too, and so your point is completely invalid. Chevy is a division of GM, which Holden is too; so why replace one division for another? Holden isn’t having problems selling cars, there’s just a tiny decline, everyone experiences it from time to time. If we replaced Holden with Chevy entirely you’d have double, triple or quadruple the losses.
And re-noting again, we don’t complain about the Holdens we have, only people like you do. People who don’t live in Australia, and don’t know the value of the European style cars we drive here, as opposed to the large, gas-guzzling, tanks.
I am not anti American and did not intend for my post to come across as such! just different cars and styles for different markets. What I am saying is this. If Holden want to survive as Company in this Country then they have to change and change now ! Daewoo here has a horrid image problem based on crappy little cars they used to sell here. Sourcing cars from Daewoo and slapping Holden badges on them doesn’t fool the public. They have a long way to go to match Hyundai ! What is they call them here ? Holdenwoo that’s it 😉
I don’t think Chevrolet would sell in great numbers here. Some American cars do sell here in small numbers, I do mean small numbers for a niche market. The Chrysler 300c being one of them. Mustang would sell maybe 5 per month I don’t think Dearborn would bother with such a low volume. Camaro would sell but again in very small numbers I think you’d pressed for 10 a month and again hardly worth Chevrolet’s effort to export them here.
buyer’s taste’s here have shifted dramatically and large cars with V8’s are out of favor have been for sometime . look at the top ten selling cars in Australia and you can see the shift in the market. Most people now days couldn’t care less if Holden stay or go! Same would apply to Chevrolet if they sold cars here. The market here now is for small hatchbacks and small sedans with the odd SUV thrown in. Holden take note ! Re work the Insignia, engineer it for OZ conditions slap the lion on it and it will sell ! Violla next Commodore! Re badge the Corsa as Barina and adopt the new Vectra
If you’re saying this in reply to my comment, I actually directed my comment to Brian Ritter, however the website seems to keep replying to yours instead?
If you don’t complain about your cars then why are you asking to change the way they look and feel?
If holden is selling so well then why are they losing money and looking into ending production of some cars there?
It’s so stupid to think GM could replace holden with chevy and look what happen today to opel! You don’t think this can’t happen to you holden?
I was not that far off base was I?
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/08/breaking-gm-to-cease-opel-sales-in-australia/
Hmmm, 66 brands. Sounds like Opel never should have entered the market. GM Holden was second to Toyota as far as 2011 sales figures are concerned (The Commodore, however, was the second best selling vehicle to the Mazda3, albeit by only 812 units). I myself am quite enamored with Holden and think they are part of what is right with GM currently. Have you seen what Chevy is (or is not) doing with the VF Commodore? Australians let your voices be heard! The bow tie looks tacky on this car. I have stated on other boards that I went ahead and purchased a used G8 GXP (wanted a performance sedan) because I was underwhelmed with the Chevy SS offering (1 engine, 1 transmission, blah). I am an American who loves what Holden is doing and would prefer to see Holden badging versus Chevy.
“The bow tie looks tacky on this car.”
Merely a subjective opinion, and doesn’t speak to the greater market taste.
The point is that what “Chevy is going” on a global level in general is already successful, and will be even more so as all-new models on the next-gen D2 and E2 architectures are released. Meanwhile, sales of vehicles like the Commodore/SS will continue to dwindle now and well into the future. As a driving enthusiast, that’s an unfortunate yet real truth.
Outside of that, what is “Holden doing”? I hope you realize that outside of Zeta vehicles, all Holdens are actually Chevys… and with a few exceptions (that are being worked on), Chevys are very competitive mainstream vehicles that will only get better with the next generations (as GM develops them now, rather than with tight bankruptcy-ridden funds from 2008-2010).
Alex, yes, I do understand that Chevy vehicles are being rebadged and in some cases renamed for Holden lineups. I was just saying that in particular to what Holden is doing (like the Commodore) I prefer to most everything that Chevy is doing, minus the Corvette of course. I am still fairly young (feeling like a dinosaur), but I’m not on board with what much of the auto industry is doing. I think most cars are boring. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in the concept of efficiency and reducing reliance on oil, but there should be a balance with design and performance as well. Why does a vehicle have to look and drive like it’s efficient? Chevy seems to be moving in the right direction, but time will tell. Maybe we need to see what they do with the Alpha platform long term. I just don’t see it translating. I am but one of many opinions.
Umm Opel was in a new country/market. The toughest one to be in too! They also had price problems. Holden has been in Australia for a long time, its actually older than Chevrolet. Talk when Opel is dead in Germany and not when they were doing what we all saw coming.
John, I wasn’t replying to your comment. I grew up with the Holden vs Ford rivalry at Bathurst and have had my share of Torana’s , Kingswoods, Commodore’s with the odd Monaro here and there with Falcons and Fairlanes in the mix. The market here as we know has changed in the last 3 or so years.
Holden need to change with that for if they don’t, they will go the same way Ford are with Falcon. Holden need to move with times and times are saying Mazda 2 Mazda 3 Mazda 6 Toyota Corolla hatch Kia Cerato and other small cars like that which Holden don’t have in it’s line up. The Korean offerings from Holden don’t stack up against Mazda.
As much as I Iove the Commodore it keeps getting bigger and more bloated with each model. I think they are way off in the styling of VF too. Commodore will slip down the sales charts and keep sliding unless they change it to suit the times.
I think GM needs to have more faith in Holden. Bring back the Torana instead of selling the Malibu. Make a Commodore based SUV. Introduce hybrid models (Calais-H ???) Etc. More Australian vehicles can benefit Holden.
Chevy should replace Holden down under! The people of that area do not deserve to have Holden anymore, if they really wanted Holden then they would of supported them more and bought more of Holden’s cars!
Well when you have free trade agreements with other countries that benefit them and not Australia and when the Australian Gov keeps lowering Tariffs on imports and not protecting the local Auto Makers and this market is the most saturated in the world. Yep, more brands on sale here than the U.S. And you have Gen Y who refuse to buy Commodore’s or Ford Falcons because they are deemed as redneck cars. You have the perfect storm for disaster! Australian labor costs cannot compete with cheap Asian labor either.
Gen Y want Korean and Euro crap. No, not Daewoo, who make Chevrolet Cars, which are viewed here as utter piles of junk! But Hyundai and Kia. Not my views on Daewoos just what you read in Forums. Everyone dumps on them.
Don’t think for one minute Chevy would survive here. Again Gen Y who are the buying power today view chev as redneck cars too. Yup, sad eh! Chev would need to change whole line up of what they have to offer to compete with Jap and Korean Cars here.
So what do you do? Well, you raise tariffs, yeah this will piss of the local yuppies but Ef them! Make Korean cars as expensive as Holden by slapping import taxes on em 🙂 Jap cars too ! Then the younger Generation here will have no choice but to buy Commodores. lol If only!
So what happens post 2016? Well, my bet is Holden will remain Holden. Sales will tank without local Commodore, no one wants their Korean offerings. There has been talk of Holden importing Opel cars here again to replace Commodore and probably rest of range, Think Corsa, and Astra as well as Insignia. These will replace cruze, and Barina which I believe is called Sonic in U.S
Holden Engineers will still design Cars for Australia. Im betting some cosmetic changes to Opel range with suspension mods and diff front/rear treatment but the Cars themselves will be built in EU.
There was mention of a Chinese GM replacement for Commodore but… Can’t see anyone lining up to buy a Chinese car, guess neither can Holden. Opels recent foray into Australia was a flop however, slap a Holden badge on them puppies and they will sell.
If we have a change in Government, they will likely have talks with GM into continued manufacturing here. This might to be late by then as Toyota and Ford will have gone and component suppliers aren’t going to remain in business just for Holden. Doing so would raise costs significantly. Most Governments support their local Auto Industries with either subsidies or tax concessions . We have a new Gov with a clueless leader and his policies cut funding to Holden, Toyota and Ford. Another reason why the Auto makers are pulling out.
What’s wrong with cars coming from China? As long as they are put together with the same standards as American models?
I think it’s just in your head, just like the brain dead people that won’t buy GM trucks that are built in Mexico! They are built to the same standards as the GM trucks built elsewhere!
If you want to make excuses for your people not supporting the local products then I have zero respect for you!
You Talk Out Of Both Sides Of Your Mouth!
You Say Your people will only buy locally built cars but then complain when they leave cuz you don’t?
The fact is if your people would of bought those cars you want to keep then the automobile companies would be staying!
No , read what I said. I said Australians in general will not buy Australian cars. Not making excuses bud, just telling like it is. You need to read Australian forums before passing comments to understand why Holden is in the nose. To me, most arguments don’t stack up against Holden.
I mentioned above a few reasons why Holden is finding it tough. As for Chinese Cars, they are viewed as unreliable, poor build quality, breakdown often with no resale value and about as safe as a unicycle in an accident.
Give the Chinese another 10-15 yrs and they will be up there with Hyundai.
Me… I want my fellow country men to go out and buy a Commodore or a Ford Falcon, sadly they are viewed as bogan redneck mobiles bought by lesser individuals who live in Government housing.
This means I either stick with my Rear wheel drive Commodore and Falcon, yep I have both. And in future just buy used cars because I’m not buying Euro, jap or Korean when Holden and Ford cease manufacturing, and I want rear wheel drive.
Go here, http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/133 sign up and start a thread about buying a Commodore or a Chinese car. See how long it takes you to get howled down. You will be told to buy a Toyota Corrolla, Mazda 2. or 3 or 6. Hyundai I 30 and other boring small jalopies.
Ah one more thing, tell them you want to buy an SV6 or SS Commodore and want put Chev badges on it, see what happens 😉 not dumping on Chev, they make some okay Cars but Chev badges on Holden’s do not go down well here.
Need to correct something here, the Commodore, Cruze and Toyota Camry (made in Aus too) were all in the top 5 most sold passenger vehicles when Ford announced its plans to close. Ironically, the Focus was Ford’s only car in the top 10 and Territory (an Australian) was the only other car from Ford in top 20. Falcon (Australian) was probably not far behind Territory. Ford’s poor sales in general was a direct result of their marketing plan. Focus held on because it had built a good reputation. Territory was in the popular SUV segment and was Australian. There hadn’t been any marketing for years for the Falcon and so many consumers (who aren’t motoring enthusiasts or fans) forgot about the great car. So Australians were buying Australian cars and Australians were buying Australian Holdens.
Anyone who could buy a Commodore did and most bought Cruze’s too. Cruze would have sold better if GM didn’t do a half asked job. Terrible interior and poor handling. Holden managed to fix handling for the MY14 update but by then, Stephen “F*cking D*ickward” Jacoby had already made up his tiny mind. If Holden had made the Opel Astra instead of the Cruze here, I think the Astra would be no.1
GM also limited exportation of Holdens too. 3,000 units for the SS is ridiculous. They could have done better. They should have offered a manual, should have offered cheaper trim levels etc. too.
What I want to know is why GM won’t consider selling Holden. They did for Saab and Hummer.
I think Chevrolet should replace Holden now BUT Holden and Australian facilities should be sold to someone who is interested in continuing Holden. I don’t want consumers to think Holdens are still Holdens, just not made here. I want them to know Holden virtually is dead (unless sold).
Matt, I agree with most of your comments. For Ford Australia with Falcon I think they had two problems. The BA did well in sales to recover from the new edge styling of the horrendous AU but Ford dropped the ball with the BF Falcon.
The BF just wasn’t different enough from BA and punters didn’t want to part with more coin for a new model that pretty much looked like the old model. Holden released the VE at the time and was light years ahead in design which didn’t do Ford any favors.
Ford again dropped the ball with face lifted FG Falcon, again styling was reminiscent of BA/BF Falcon and just not different enough. You are right in that Ford advertising the Falcon was non existent but I’m thinking they were told by Dearborn not to advertise it as Ford HQ were making plans to kill it. Shame really the XR6 Turbo Falcon was Giant killer and with a few mods easily pumped out 1000hp slaying any V8.
Once Ford announced to plans to pull out and then Holden, Toyota could not stay. To expensive in components with no Ford and Holden to share costs they were doomed.
The Commodore does sell and is not really in that bad a shape on the sales ladder proving there is a market for it. I agree that GM could have and should have allowed Holden to export it more in greater numbers. Why the Ute and Wagon aren’t on sale in the US and middle east is beyond me. You read most GM forums and people are willing to buy them yet GM cut them out.
There was a plan by South Australian State Gov and Victorian State Gov asking GM to sell Holden lock stock barrel with name and getting a cashed up Chinese auto maker to buy Holden. This would allow Holden to continue Manufacturing here and same time give the Chinese technology to make descent cars for once.
Both China and Holden would have benefited but GM said no. GM for some reason want to keep Holden. I think Holden could continue under new ownership and still make the Commodore here with a Chinese auto maker as partner and sharing tech with them.
Important points that are often over looked in this discussion, is the that Holden as a brand name or even a model of a car has only been around for just a short 69 years.
Prior to November 1948 there was no such thing as a “Holden”. Prior to 1948 there was of course General Motors Holdens (GMH) but GMH prior to 1948 did not sell a Holden as no such car existed then.
GMH did however, prior to 1948 sell Cadillac, La Salle, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Vauxhall and Bedford. And even when Holden was first introduced it continued until 1970 to sell along side Chevrolet, Pontiac, Vauxhall and Bedford at GMH dealers. GMH dealers did not start to sell Holden exclusively until 1970 and even then GMH dealers continued to sell Chevrolet trucks during the 1970s.
Historically Chevrolet has much more to do with putting Australians into cars than Holden ever will. Added to this, until the release of the 1962 Holden ‘EJ’ Premier sedan the Holden was a basic entry level cheap mass market car with cheap vinyl upholstery and basic rubber floor covering. No heater, radio or other equipment came as standard equipment.
Early Holdens were dispite what many want to believe, poor performs on Australian outback roads. Chevrolets of the period handled these conditions much better, Burt sadly the generation that could recall theses facts have all but passed on now.
In 2017 most of us access the worldwide web. Gone are the days where Australia lives in its own bubble. In line with this, GM must continue its downsizing to the point that world wide it only supports two brands, those brands being of course Cadillac for the premium market and Chevrolet for the mass market.
The short lived (just 69 year old) Holden brand name is no longer relevant and the sales numbers confirm this. GM can retire the Holden slowly or better still quickly but retirement is only direction for Holden name and CHEVROLET is the obvious replacement.
Bottom line is simply that General Motors must continue working towards reaching a point where GM only offers just two (2) brand names all over the world. Those brand being Chevrolet for the mass market and Cadillac for the premium market.
But also consider these points:
1/ In Australia GM-H only starting selling the Holden Brand from late 1948. That’s just 69 years ago! So the Holden Brand is only a new kid on the block.
2/ It was 1970 before GM-H sold Holden exclusively and even then GM-H continued to sell Chevrolet trucks and in 1976 a small number of Chevrolet Classic Caprice sedans. That’s just 47 years ago!
3/ From 1948 until 1970 Australian GM-H dealers sold Pontiac, Chevrolet, Vauxhall passenger cars and Bedford trucks alongside the ‘working class’ Holden.
4/ It was the early 1990s before GM-H dealerships were rebranded as Holden dealerships. The time has a come to return to GM dealers in Australia selling Cadillac, Chevrolet and for a very limited period perhaps some small entry level cars badged as Holden’s.
GM has sold off Vauxhall and Opel. GM has killed off Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Holden needs to be killed off now. Australia is a very different place to what it was in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The brand Holden is no longer relevant to Australia or Australians.