With the launch of the Cadillac’s upcoming full-sized sedan drawing closer, more details are beginning to emerge. Currently being referred as the XTS, the latest word on the street reports that the upcoming Caddy will offer a 3.6L V6 engine as a base offering (which could be the upcoming 330 horsepower LFX), and a twin-boosted 3.0L V6 engine (most likely called the LF3) as the upgrade. In addition, the Epsilon II-based sedan will come in both front and all-wheel-drive setups.
If you’re asking us, it doesn’t exactly sound like a winning recipie for a vehicle that will be slotted above the CTS and will face incredibly fierce European competition.
Source: SEMA
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Comments
So this will be flagship for now, and Cadillac with bring a true flagship later on? why not just bring a true RWD flagship instead of eplison II FWD? what will replace towncar with it’s fleet of towncar service and limos?
Face European competition, probably no, trump Lincoln, it must.
Yoda talk! We like! 🙂
Soooo, now it’s evident why the BuickRegal GS is getting the mediocre powerplant. They can’t have a repeat of what happened in the eighties with the Grand Nationals!! The XTS needs the V8 and give the twin turbo V6 to Buick. I’m just saying!!
Problem is, the Epsilon II (even if it’s the Super Epsilon of the XTS) can’t fit an 8. The XTS should come and go as a stop-gap vehicle and I hope to see a real rear-wheel drive Caddy flagship before the end of
2011oops, that was a typo; I meant to say 2020.Alex
Founder, GM Authority
Seriously. I agree that Buick should get the twin turbo and Cadillac get the V8 – but that’s not happening. And we HOPE the XTS gets the twin turbo V6. We’re not even sure about that yet.. Honestly, we don’t even know for sure that XTS will be the name – it could be the next DTS – but that’s unlikely since GM executives consider the DTS a “damaged brand”.
The XTS isn’t even considered a flagship from within GM.. It’s a stop-gap car until the real flagship arrives – some time before the end of the decade (we hope).
Yeah, there’s a lot of “hope” involved in all of this right now.. Let’s see what the ATS can do for Cadillac’s revenue and maybe then we’ll get a true full-size premium luxury sedan with RWD and a 400+ horsepower V8.
Sal Collaziano
CadillacXTS.com
2011? GM doesn’t even have a platform available for a proper RWD flagship right now. Chevy will have something decent soon but it won’t be good enough to compete with Germany.
Sal Collaziano
CadillacXTS.com
Yeah, that was supposed to read 2020, not 2011. It definitely won’t happen in 2011.
GM does have the Zeta (Commodore, Statesman, US-market Caprice)… but that may be used for a Buick flagship like the Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2010/08/buick-working-on-zeta-based-lexus-ls-competitor-cadillac-rwd-flagship-on-track/
There are rumblings here and there about the Buick and Caddy sharing a full-size RWD architecture for their respective full-size luxury sedans. We hope that turns out to be true and wish that Buick’s flagship would be tuned for comfortable luxury while that of Caddy would be made for performance luxury… as we’ve been talking about here for the last year and a half or so. We’ll see.
As far as Chevy goes, it needs a modern replacement for the Impala. At this point, not sure if it will be RWD or FWD/AWD.
Alex
Founder, GM Authority
I agree and don’t mind the sounds of Buick and Cadillac sharing a platform. Just make sure the two vehicles look entirely different inside and out. The Buick can compete with the Lexus LS and the Cadillac can compete with the 7-Series or S-Class.
The next Impala is definitely FWD.
Sal Collaziano
CadillacOwners.com
Exactly! You’re one of the first people to see the light. 🙂
The luxury market is not a one-size-fits-all proposition. There’s soft luxury (Lexus) and then there’s performance luxury (Benz, BMW, Audi, Infiniti, Acura — to a certain extent). And then there’s everyone else in between – Volvo, Saab, etc. GM has a unique opportunity here to conquer both sides of the lux market with Buick and Caddy.
Alex
Founder, GM Authority
Thanks! 🙂 It’s unfortunate that we’ve got to wait so long for the flagship but you know what they say – good things come to those who wait. As it stands, Cadillac is selling a lot of the CTS and SRX – and I’m sure the ATS is going to be a very hot seller. And I even think the XTS, with all it’s technological impressiveness (interior amenities), will sell quite a bit.. All these sales will add up to a good flagship.
If the next CTS can really fill the shoes of the STS like it’s supposed to – and offer a V8 in a non-V version – or at least a 350 or so horsepower V6 (TT?), than Cadillac is seriously going to sell a lot of cars. This upcoming generation of vehicles is going to open the doors for a lot of really good things…
Sal Collaziano
CadillacOwners.com
This is true. From we’ve been hearing, the ATS and 3rd-gen CTS will be best-in-class. But my wishlist for Caddy is to move the SRX to a RWD architecture that would spawn an X5/ML/FX competitor as well as a SRX+ that would compete with the GL and next-generation Lexus GX.
To be a true performance luxury brand, Caddy needs to have absolutely no FWD-based vehicles, even if they’re FWD-based AWD like the XTS.
PS: the next-gen 3.6L LFX V6 is gonna be a beast! 350+ hp and torque!
Very, very nice! I like it a lot. Could use a little more foot room though.
They can use a V8 in an Epsilon II? Gm used 5.3 v8 in a W-body.
I don’t think a V8 is in the cards for the Epsi — whether it’s Super Epsi or regular Epsi II; especially Judging by the fact that the biggest V6 in Epsilon II so far is the 2.8 turbo in the Insignia OPC.
Geez, they have only been farting around with a so-called flagship since at least 1999. I thought Caddy’s new mantra “New Standard of The World” was actually going to mean something. Is it they meant “New Standard” vs the world of Tier 2 luxury makers? Or does it really mean “The World” as in global luxury competitors. Currently, Caddy cars barely compete with the Tier 2 lux makers. Against BMW, Audi and Mercedes. No way, no how not in any objective, technical comparison. A 556hp CTS does not a luxury competitor make. I hope XTS is only a stop-gap. If not then maybe sound the taps for a global Caddy.
Completely agreed! One can only hope! 🙂
Personally I don’t think that the XTS will ever get a V8. The 3.0l TT is a perfect engine for the car (and platform). I can see this engine making it’s way over to Buick for a LaCrosse GS, and eventually to Chevrolet for an Impala SS.
It looks to me that the eventual top tier Cadillac (ZTS?) will be based on the under development new Zeta (premium) platform, which will be shared with Buick (and Chevy getting the lower cost version of the platform).
So I wouldn’t get all that upset/worried.
Additional thought: It seems to me that the XTS isn’t intended to be the Cadillac flagship (be may seem that for a while until the rwd ZTS comes on line), but is being targeted as the last car to being targeted at the “older” DTS crowd. And once the XTS runs it’s life cycle, 5-7 years, (trying to avoid bad pun now) it’ll die away.
So it would be somewhat of a transitionary vehicle for the DTS crowd? Hmmm interesting. I think you may be on to something!
I think cadillac needs to stop with the sports car image. i like big, floaty cloud rides that cadillac makes so well. and im not 80 im 23. and this cadillac may gat a V8, GM even said its possible so quit action like you know it all alex, ur not a GM Cheif engineer so stop talking like you know it all.
Jacob — I’m not an engineer. Are you?
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Epsilon and V8 won’t go well together. In fact, GM’s only remaining V8 engines are pushrods — since the Northstar DOHC has been discontinued in 2010. Are you suggesting that GM will shove a pushrod V8 under the hood of a FWD vehicle riding on a MODERN architecture? Sometimes, common sense > wishes.
Now let’s talk about your “proposal” of returning Caddy to the couch on wheels department. Have you considered the fact that the luxury vehicle space today is clearly divided between pure/soft luxury (Lexus, Lincoln) and performance luxury (BMW, Audi, Infiniti)? So if GM were to reallign Caddy to make soft luxury vehicles again, how would it compete with BMW? Approachable/Soft/pure luxury is what Buick is for. It can beat Lexus at its own game if the folks at GM really put their heads to it. But leave the performance luxury space to Caddy.
This is clearly a situation where GM’s plethora of “extra” brands can allow it to dominate the luxury space with Buick and Cadillac. Again, not just be a competitor — but outsell everybody else!
Jacob — reading over your comment again — where and when did GM say it’s possible to shoehorn a V8 into the XTS? I don’t think that ever happened.
It sounds like you’re the perfect customer for the XTS.
Seems like both GM and Ford are working from the lower end cars upward. In the past we have seen the reverse. Now, the “new” GM came out with a Malibu an the LaCross and the bigger cars look like they will be last.
Ford is the same way. The Taurus and the Lincoln MKS – where’s the Crown Vitoria and the Town Car? Each seems to be called the “Flagship” until the next one in the ladder comes along. Weird, but make make a little sense. Not that i am happy to see the lower end cars come out first, I’d rather the “dream cars” would come out first, but it probably wouldn’t so the sales that the middle end cars do for them.
That’s an interesting perspective — working from the bottom up. I guess they needed to start somewhere… And they decided to start with volume rather than luxury.
I’m sick of GM putting fuel economy ahead of performance and handicapping their products because their engines are down on power compared to the competition. At least make the V6 turbo a 3.6 not a 3.0. The SRX had a 2.8T that was way too small and wasn’t any better on gas then the larger 3.6. I will bet you that this 3.0 tt won’t be have any better real world FE than a V8. The proof is in the Ford Ecoboost V6. I read a test on a Taurus SHO with that engine that proved the FE was no better than a Hemi 300C. GM’s been building overweight vehicles for the last several years, and need to add power ASAP if they want to remain competitive. The Cruze has proved that smaller turbo engines don’t work if your cars are too heavy.
Right there with you, bud. Why is the twin turbo a 3.0 and not the 3.6 LFX (or at least LLT)? The Cruze is very low on power (especially when compared to the new Focus), even with the 1.4 Turbo. It needs some more of it. Heck, it’s not even direct injected. And this is coming from a proud Cruze owner.
Now, I’m not sure about the V8 vs. V6 TT debate. I just don’t think it would have been practical for Ford to shove a V8 into a front-driver. And I really like the EcoBoost turbos. But the fact remains that GM’s “mainstream” vehicles remain underpowered (Cruze, Equinox, Traverse, Regal).
I for one love all the new Cadillacs. It is good to see GM putting real Cadillacs out again. This is a beautiful car with a very beautiful luxurious interior. It will do well for those it has been designed for. I’m sure it won’t leave you on the side of the road like a Mercedes or BMW and it probably has brakes that actually work unlike a Lexus. Those cars have long been overrated by the press. I have owned them and I know what they are. C R A P ! ! !
But for the sake of accuracy, the Lexus LS was not affected by the unintended acceleration issues. Neither were the GS or IS.