May 4, 2012 at 6:33 am #38275
GM we run a few websites promoting E85 and flex fuel vehicles and noticed that the Flex Fuel Badges (that are always installed on the real of the vehicle) we’re not installed on some 2012 FFVS.. so far we have noticed missing FFV badges on
Chevy Malibu (Fleet FFV)..they all do have the yellow caps and the FFV version based on 8th character of VIN is correct..
Impalas, Silverados etc..all seem to have their FFV badges
As well as NO Hybrid Badge on the 2012 Buick LaCrosse!
While I was investigating the missing FFVS badges at a local Buick Dealership and older Couple came up and asked if I knew why some of the Lacrosse’s were rated 37MPG and others 28.. I assumed it was because some were 4 cyl and others 6..but no that wasn’t the case. Some were Hybrids and others weren’t..but no one could tell because there was no Badge signifying it as a Hybrid
May 4, 2012 at 6:39 am #39828
We’ve already had one Member go out and buy a 2012 Ford Fusion FFV because they didn’t realize they could get a 2012 Malibu FFV because he didn’t see any Malibus with the Flex Fuel Badge as he and his wife we’re driving up and down the aisles at the dealerships.
We have since told our members that they need to walk up and down the aisles and physically open the fuel flap and see if their is a yellow cap inside (as well as double check vins) ..on ANY GM vehicle that they are considering because now that is the ONLY sure way they can tell if it is a FFV .
May 4, 2012 at 7:16 am #39829
Well the Equinox and Terrain have the “FlexFuel” mark and I think for the Regal they still have the mark but Buick won’t badge it because it’s modified as a premium vehicle. As you can see, do you see any Lexus that badge their Hybrids (except for putting the h).
May 4, 2012 at 7:57 am #39830
Not sure what you mean as the FlexFuel “mark”..the Buick Regal does NOT have the Flex Fuel Badge and you said modified as a premium” vehicle..again not sure of your terminology .
The Regals and LaCrosses as well as Cadillac (premium vehicles as you put it) have always had the Flex Fuel Badges
Lexus does not have a FFV
May 4, 2012 at 8:24 am #39831
Here VIC the 2011 Buick Regal has the Badge ..so the question is why did GM remove Badges on the 2012 Models . Pretty simple question
May 4, 2012 at 9:24 am #39832
GREAT point Vic. The Badge, as well as E85, is fantastic – but premium brands shouldn’t be calling out their flex fuel status. I can tell you this – my Father recently purchased a GMC Terrain. While I was browsing Buicks, the dealer was all too willing to mention that certain models were flex fuel. At least at this particular dealer, they attempted to educate me so I knew what the vehicle was capable of. My hope is that GM will educate all of their buyers, badge or not.
May 4, 2012 at 9:44 am #39833
Again what is with the premium brand nonsense? is the Malibu premium brand? Why si it so difficult to just answer the question?
And BY202 MOST Sales People don’t even KNOW what FlexFuel Means.. I have thousands of members and they all complain about Sales People that don’t have a clue about Ethanol /Flex Fuel ..you are an exception to that rule
May 4, 2012 at 9:47 am #39834
Sorry guys..just irritating as H that no one can answer a straight question with a straight answer.. cannot get an official response.
Why on earth would you remove the Hybrid and FFV badges..what was the REASONING..
May 4, 2012 at 4:20 pm #39835
We cant give you you a strait answer because none of us knows, so were just trying to explore and discuss, were not GM or have access too GM’s thinking or reasoning, were GM enthusiasts.
So in short, we dont know!
Maybe Alex and/or the GM team can do some digging and find out though.
May 4, 2012 at 4:42 pm #39836
My guess was that they probably want to make it a standard equipment because not everybody cares about being E85 Ethanol because it’s not that big of a deal about it. So it’s kinda worthless of just putting those badges (I think). And this goes for if it’s a Hybrid or any kind of alternative vehicle. Not all customers understand EREV, Hybrid, Plug-ins, etc. They just want to save gas or to sound cool about it even though E85 doesn’t save that much on gas but it’s an alternative fuel.
May 5, 2012 at 7:26 am #39841
They have gone to installing a decal on the drivers window, at least on new Sierra Denali that is where it is. Sorry, no pic to post. I assume they changed to save on cost.
I could only find reference to this vehicles
The Flex Fuel E85 badge commonly found on the rear of many flex fuel vehicles has been changed on the 2012 Equinox and Terrain. The liftgate Flex Fuel badge has been replaced with a Flex Fuel decal located on the fixed rear quarter glass.
The VIN breakpoints are:
(Identified by a 6 as the 11th digit of the VIN)
Build Date: February 22, 2012
(Identified by a 1 as the 11th digit of the VIN)
Build Date: March 5, 2012
Build Date: February 22, 2012
To ensure all vehicles get the E85 Flex Fuel identifier, during a 48 hour change-over period, a number of vehicles were produced with both the badge and the window decal. Vehicles built on or after the build dates are built with the E85 window decal.
If owners notice the E85 Flex Fuel badge is missing from the liftgate, point out the decal located on the fixed rear quarter glass. Do not order or install an E85 Flex Fuel badge on the liftgate.
May 5, 2012 at 7:44 am #39842
at the end of 2011, govt subsidies for E85 ended, and about the same time, the E85 station near me was converted to regular fuel. So, my guess would be that if E85 is more difficult to find and more expensive, it would make for higher driving costs, and it’s use will almost disappear until something more cost effective comes up. So maybe GM is avoiding controversy over bragging about flex fuel usage (with badges) when no one will ever use it much.
May 5, 2012 at 8:19 am #39843
@ Z15 ..Excellent..interesting read ..thanks and yep I seen those (the little peel off Flex Fuel sticker) I have Photos when I was out taking photos . So to me as well it sounds like nothing more than a small cost saving change.
Interesting because I thought about what Vic was saying all day yesterday and maybe they are just removing them from the Premium vehicles.. cleaner look on the higher end. .. that may as well still have merit.
I am going to check the Cadillac Dealer here in a couple days as well and see if they are doing the same on those as well.
@tjs .. actually the “subsidies” weren’t for specifically E85 but rather just overall blending credit.. that subsidy went to the Oil Companies . a Carrot to the Oil Companies to do the blending.
and yes E85 does get “used a lot” there are almost 3,000 Stations now carrying E85 ..it’s growing not disappearing. The Problem for us drivers that use E85 is that the ethanol Industry is more interested in producing E10/E15 because that represents VOLUME sales for them as well as the corn growers.
Corn has nearly reached it’s allowable limit of 15 billion gallons a year (99% is used as an additive blend .. E10.. less than 1% as areal alternative fuel like E85)
So you wont see many if any more corn ethanol plants being built..the next generation of ethanol production starts in earnest this year..cellulosic and MSW (Municipal Waste to Ethanol (yep the garbage you set out to the curb). The first Plants start production here in a couple months.
The Ethanol Industry has a whole has concentrated on additive Blends like E10 because E10 can be used in every vehicle..it means VOLUME sales and profits to them..where using ethanol as an alternative fuel requires an actual investment in infrastructure E85 and blender pumps..less initial volume/more investment and smaller profits.
But now that ethanol has saturated the additive blend market (e10…there is no growth left.. nearly all the Gasoline already contains it’s allowable limit of ethanol ..10%)
So they only Markets left for the Ethanol Industry is to
1. FINALLY start building out at a much faster rate the infrastructure for higher blends ..like E85..it took 5-6 years to go from 400 E85 Stations to 3,000..they need more thna double that effort to gain some volume in the high blend market
2. Exports.. they will continue finding new Markets over seas..as long as corn ethanol is less expensive than say Brazils sugarcane ethanol they wil export ..and it has been less expensive for over a year now
3. They will continue lobbying for more additive blends in the USA.. E15..(which can be run in just about any vehicle like E10 can.. except boats, mowers and vintage vehicles..)that is why you continue to see E15 debates popping up..the ethanol Industry trying to gain access to that high volume arena ..like they had with E10.
BTW..go to the Chicago Board of Trade and look click the Energy Tab.. Ethanol is trading for around 90 cents LESS per gallon than Refined Gasoline..no subsidies at all ..staright up gasoline to ethanol)
But bottom line is you will see more and more ethanol..more and more Stations selling E15, E20,E30,E40,E50….E85 ..and from our perspective we think it is important that the Badges stay so people understand that Yes your vehicle is a Flex Fuel Vehicle and you can run ANY blend of Gasoline and Ethanol.
Let me share you a story for one of our Members from a few years back during the major Hurricanes ..
“Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 10:27:53 PM »
Here in the Metro Atlanta Area, you may be aware that we have a TRUE gas shortage.
With only one E85 pump 1 mile from me & no others within a 15 mile radius, it’s been
amazing to watch the apocalyptic scenes of up to 100 cars (no joke) waiting in line for gasoline.
Meanwhile, @ my E85 pump, I had to endure a 7 minute wait for e85!!! This REALLY SUCKS because
there is normally no one but me at the E85 pump. Dammit! All of those tree-huggers in their Suburbans, Yukons,
Nissan titan, Grand Cherokee & one desperate hottie in a ’00 Mustang were crampin’ my style.
After seeing how I lose 7 minutes of my precious time once these drivers figure out that E85 is a true diamond in
the rough during times of ‘crisis’, I am now convinced that I must go on a campaign to make all of those myths
about E85 resonate even more for the hayseeds around here. from now on, I’m gonna tell ’em all that they are right –
E85 is a Commie fuel, it will fry their engines, will drive up the price of popcorn & will cause millions of African children to starve.
If Sarah Palin says that all of our energy needs will be solved by fockin up….errr, I mean ‘drilling’ in Alaska, then that’s what
we must do. As former mayor of the largest town on the road to Fairbanks, she must be an authority.
Anything to keep them hayseeds away from MY e85 pump.
May 5, 2012 at 8:28 am #39844
But doesn’t it if you use the ethanol oil you will be less fuel efficient?
May 5, 2012 at 12:08 pm #39846
There is only 1 E85 station within 200 miles of my location, about 70 miles from me.
May 5, 2012 at 4:56 pm #39851
@Vic ..that’s because the engines are optimized for Gasoline not ethanol..but that’s FINE as long as E85 is priced correctly.
For $100 or so GM can convert ANY non FFV Model into a FFV Model that can run Gasoline/Ethanol or any blend of the two fuels
YES it will cost considerably more to create higher compression engines optimized for E85.. (you can run higher compression because ethanol cools the cylinders and at 105-113 octane wont knock)
Yes we would love to see engines better optimized for high blend ethanol like E85 but that can wait until we have 30,000, 40,000 + Stations carrying high blend ethanol…in meantime just basic Flex Fuel Option (cost $100) is fine ..that $100 fills a great gap in our National Security as far as fueling options go.
Imagine if Iran and Israel did go to war and the Gulf was closed down..having every vehicle on the road capable of switching to E85 (or say E40, E50 or E60) would be huge..again the Cost around $100 a vehicle..
Right from the Horses Mouth so to speak..
“KISSIMMEE, Florida (Reuters) – General Motors Co’s growing output of vehicles capable of running on ethanol-gasoline blends won’t help cut polluting emissions or U.S. dependence on foreign oil until a slim network of stations dispensing ethanol is greatly expanded, GM Vice Chairman Tom Stevens said.
Half of GM’s vehicle lineup will be able to run on a mix of 15 percent gasoline and 85 percent ethanol, called E85, by the 2012 model year, said Stevens, GM’s vice chairman for global product operations.
“GM is spending about $100 million a year adding flex-fuel capability to our vehicles. We can’t afford to leave this capital stranded,” Stevens is to tell attendees in a speech on Tuesday at the Renewable Fuels Association conference.
A copy of the speech was provided to reporters on Monday.
Adding the capability to run on E85 costs adds as much as $70 to the production cost of each vehicle, Stevens said.
May 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm #39852
@Z15 ..Where you are ? What State?
I think the next 12-18 months as the next generation ethanol comes to market and starts contributing Volume Production we are going to see the Pace of Stations carrying E20,E30,E40….E85 really expand .
Again the growth of ethanol as an alternative fuel instead of as a additive fuel (E10) was slower because the “easy money” was in E10 (additive blends) .. took little investment where high blend ethanol requires more investment.. Gas Tanks/ Pumps/ washers/seals all have to be ethanol resistant.. all have to be upgraded …
Not a huge issue but yeah it takes an investment to install those pumps..and those Stations need assurances from the Auto Industry that they will also invest (even the basic $100 FFV..and yes thats also a significant invest when you are talking about a million vehicles..but Far far less that the investment for electric vehicles..which I also think we need to continue.. the more diverse our fueling options the better for the consumer as well as our National Security ) so the Cars will be available to use the pumps..chicken or the egg situation…
Removing/ not installing the Flex Fuel Badges ..I think sends the wrong signal.. yes I can understand it on the high end premium vehicles.. but lets not cut off very cheap advertising that “our vehciles/GM” can run on any fuel
May 5, 2012 at 6:23 pm #39853
Yea, it should be on every chevy vehicle that has this capability
May 6, 2012 at 4:50 am #39861
U.P. of Michigan 49931.
2012 Seirra Denali
2009 CTS4 Performance Sedan
May 9, 2012 at 2:06 pm #39897
Sierra Pickups now come with a small Flexfuel E85 sticker on the drivers side window instead of the badge on the tailgate. I just noticed the change last week on our freshest vehicles in inventory,
May 11, 2012 at 8:34 pm #39920
I love E85 for my HHR, I fill up at a local station every week, I have saved anywhere from $1.00 to 50cents. My car is much more lively and accelerates nicely.
May 14, 2012 at 6:25 pm #39931
where I live now the E85 charges $3.03
August 1, 2012 at 7:25 am #40407
The badges went away probably for several reasons. Twenty years ago cars had “Fuel Injection” badges when that was relatively new. Ten years ago a few cars had “Direct Injection” badges. I think the novelty of E85 badges wore off (most people don’t really care), so GM is just cleaning up the clutter. We don’t really need a badge on the car for every piece of technology. However, it does need to be identified, so we got the yellow gas cap and the discreet window sticker. The GM E-assist is a “mild” hybrid which only gains couple of MPG’s, so putting a Hybrid badge on those cars would be a bit of an exaggeration, in addition to more trunk lid clutter.
August 3, 2012 at 5:30 am #40421
Where oh where did the Flex Fuel Badges Go for 2012?
I don’t know and I don’t care.
August 26, 2012 at 9:12 am #40535
The way I understand it if you have a Yellow gas cap that has E85 printed on it your car you can use E85. If not equipped with a yellow gas cap you can not use E85. My 09 Yukon Denali has a yellow cap. My wife’s 2012 Regal GS does not have a yellow cap and I was told not to use E85
October 18, 2012 at 9:09 am #40702
You really need a FlexFuel badge to know if a car can operate on e85 or not? Why? Seems like a eco-vanity thing like the HYBRID badges. They were ugly and clutter the rear of the cars anyway. I’d like to see how many of those flex fuel cars have ever been run on e85 anyway. All cars have to be built to run on E15 and varying fuel mixtures now anyway, so it was needless. They went the way of the GM fender badges… unnnecessary cost, no benefit. Plain and simple.
February 11, 2015 at 9:40 pm #85334
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