March 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm #38236
I saw in the “Who thinks it’s time to start talking about Pontiac again” thread that Alex thinks GMC is hurting GM/Chevy. He also said that Pontiac did the same. I would like to start a discussion and hear everyone’s opinion on the mater. I think it would be a good topic and I think we can have fun with it. So let’s hear it everybody, do you think the GMC brand is hurting GM/Chevy?
March 17, 2012 at 5:25 pm #39301
Dear @PontaicRulz — as I stated in the thread you’re referencing:
“anything in the world is constrained by two major factors — time and resources (money).
This applies to any business and any person. And it applies to GM. Having Pontiac (and Saturn) in the fold resulted in contributed of the limited resources (time and money) and applying them to products that didn’t really matter (except to you and “a lot of” Pontiac die-hards). Pontiac and Saturn were not very profitable (if at all) and did not sell in high volumes, but still consumed significant resources (money — marketing, design, certain engineering steps, logistics and time). These resources could have been used to make better products for brands that truly mattered (Chevy, Caddy, Buick, and perhaps Hummer).
Again, to answer your question — Pontiac, and the various resources contributed to it — were major contributors to (old) GM’s decline. Not the sole contributors, but major ones — mind you.”
So long as GMC is healthily profitable, continues to earn a significant amount of sales, and serves a necessary niche, then it’s not “hurting” anything. But the moment profits shrink, it would be a wise business decision to re-evaluate the brand, its offerings, and perhaps its existence.
March 17, 2012 at 5:58 pm #39302
But your wrong!–and I mean that in the nicest way possible, lets just have a healthy discussion and not try and tear eachother to shreds. I could care less about Saturn, Saturn didnt make money, I’ve heard that from many people who work/worked at GM. Bob Lutz said it in his book. But when we start talking about Pontiac, it is completly different. Pontiac made money! it sold very well! Idk what you are talking about when u say Pontiac didnt sell in high volumes because it did. Not as much as Chevy of course but it sold A LOT. As i’ve said before, I can’t leave my house without seeing Pontiacs everywhere on the road–and I live in Florida. Don’t put Pontiac on the same level as Saturn because one made money and the other didn’t. One was a legendary brand and the other wasn’t.
March 17, 2012 at 6:08 pm #39303
Why do you keep coming back to the sales volume topic when we already discussed this?
Pontiac did NOT sell in high enough volumes to matter. At its best over the last 10 years, it sold about 35,000 units a month.
All of those models were cars (as opposed to trucks, which are much more profitable than cars). And most of those sold at bargain-basement prices.
Very low profit margins + very low sales volume = ?
So how do you come out with profitability from that equation?
PS: the fact that you see Pontiacs “all over the road” means absolutely nothing if every one of them was sold at a price that resulted in a loss.
March 17, 2012 at 6:26 pm #39306
Pontiac made money, period. It’s not debatable lol. I can’t believe you are trying to say otherwise. I envision a plan like this:
Pontiac-NICHE BRAND for Chevrolet selling performance cars.
GMC- NICHE BRAND for Chevrolet selling professional grade SUVs and trucks
Cadillac- CORE BRAND
GMC-NICHE BRAND for Chevrolet selling professional grade SUV’s and trucks.
Cadillac- CORE BRAND
— OR —
Chevrolet- CORE BRAND
Pontiac-NICHE BRAND for Chevrolet selling performance cars.
I think the last one has the best chance of happening but if it had to be one of these, which one do you think would be best for GM?
March 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm #39307
Pontiac’s profitability is debatable until you show proof. Until then, common sense will prevail.
What kind of common sense? The kind that states:
Low sales volume + low sales price = financial failure
As for the lineups, why wouldn’t one be able to accomplish Pontiac’s goal with a “passion” line of Chevys (as seems to be planned today)?
March 18, 2012 at 8:54 am #39312
Yeah, show us the proof that Pontiac was profitable. Your word isn’t good enough.
But to tie into his “plans for the brands” bit, I’d strike off all performance-centric brands as the market demand for those is shrinking.
March 18, 2012 at 10:26 am #39313
Pontiac is gone and not soon enough. The only subjects active on this site are from a couple people that can’t let it go. Everyone else has left the building. Remember the old saying……………don’t argue with a ____
Why,because people are watching.
March 18, 2012 at 3:14 pm #39314
Because people want Pontiac, what do ya’ll not get about that. The people never wanted it to go away. Pontiac fans are just like GMC fans, once you get rid of our brand we arent just going to buy a Chevy. GM knew that about GMC buyers but didnt seem to figure it out about Pontiac buyers also.
March 19, 2012 at 10:46 am #39325
i know literally hundreds of gmc buyers (sierra mainly) and i can tell you if gmc went away they would buy a chevy cause the only difference is some sheetmetal and denali. as for pontiac they lost their relevence i agree it was sad and for a while i couldnt figure out why they dropped pontiac and kept buick ( northern albertans hated the old buick) then i saw an aztek ‘barf’ and a lacrosse and it all clicked. mind you ill miss the solstice and what it could have been. and ill always wonder how well a new trans-am would have sold but it doesnt matter anymore their gone and not coming back get over it
March 19, 2012 at 4:40 pm #39345
I personally don’t think that GMC brand should be killed since not everybody wants a plain jane Chevy but wants a premium chevrolet but not wanting to go to buick or cadillac.
March 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm #39366
March 24, 2012 at 7:26 am #39368
This is one GMC (2012 Sierra Denali) owner who would not buy a Chevy. I do not like the looks of them.
March 24, 2012 at 10:59 am #39369
Just wait ’till you see the next-gen trucks… 😀
The Sierra and Silverado will look quite different.
March 24, 2012 at 10:48 pm #39384
March 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm #39385
March 25, 2012 at 5:47 am #39388
They do right now IMO, this is not my first GMC, its my 5th. I have a Chevy dealer 5 miles away but I will drive 100 miles to buy the GMC.
Also, GM needs the GMC brand. If that were to go away, many dealer would not have SUV’s and truck to sell and the franchised non-Chevy dealers would cry fowl. My dealer sells close to 400 + GMC’s every year, thats a big loss of customers and those who think an Acadia, Terrain, Yukon, Denali or Sierra owner would automatically buy a Chevy product are misguided.
March 25, 2012 at 7:11 am #39389
And also dealer networks. In my area, the Buick/GMC dealers are more caring and they always want to help. Unlike Chevy dealers. In my area, Chevy dealers they just kinda standing there and do nothing and they don’t really give the best deal.
March 25, 2012 at 3:11 pm #39394
March 25, 2012 at 3:58 pm #39395
Would not be a Chevy. I could live with a Furd for my business. I drove them for years working for the gov’t. I would still keep the CTS4 and maybe buy a SRX to replace a pu.
I have to agree. The only Chevy dealer around here has the worst reputation for sales and service.
Btw-There is a GMC/Buick Dealer about 10 miles away but they are small family run business with little inventory and small service dept.
March 28, 2012 at 10:51 am #39426
Funny………..my Father would never drive a Chevrolet truck. He would only 100% buy GMC trucks. When it came to cars………Cadillac Sedans and Oldsmobile wagons.
March 28, 2012 at 3:19 pm #39429
GM could have cut GMC and, in the long term, I doubt many people would worry about it.
But, unlike Pontiac, I get the impression that most GMC products have a significantly higher transaction price than the average Pontiac did.
Pontiac may have had the volume over GMC at the end of the model year, but when it came down to the money, I very much doubt many people would have paid more for Pontiac’s even if they felt they were getting so much more.
Now, even though Chevrolet can do the work of GMC fairly easily, GMC is simply too profitable to throw away. If people want a glitzier truck or SUV, GMC will do it for them.
Pity the same couldn’t be said of Pontiac. Affordable horsepower did move cars off the lot; not so much nowadays, and it isn’t really GM’s fault; it’s more of a result of the times.
March 28, 2012 at 4:26 pm #39431
Why do guys even talk about murdering GMC? All it would do is get GMC guys pissed at GM and guess who they’ll go to? Chevrolet trucks would probably fall to #3 spot at sales.
March 28, 2012 at 9:42 pm #39433
I’m curious about the GMC buyer and the reason for choosing GMC over Chevy; as far as I can tell, there are two major reasons for doing so:
2. Image (Professional Grade, etc).
The first will kind of disappear with the next-generation of trucks, since both will look stunning (according to what we’ve been hearing), while the second will remain.
Even so, GMC was a lot more profitable than Pontiac due to the fact that trucks made (and continue to make) up most of its sales… and trucks are much more profitable for an automaker, especially for GM.
March 29, 2012 at 10:52 am #39436
Alex I think you forgot to mention dealer kindness
March 29, 2012 at 10:53 am #39437
@Lex i know exactly who they’d go to ehem… chevy, all GMC guys that i know only bought thier truck over chevy cause they got a bit of a better deal and mabye like the slight styling differences better. as for terrain/acadia buyers i dont know any of them so can’t judge them. iv’e always considered gmc suv’s as the buicks of the fullsized market i don’t know why but i have. as for trucks people see the sierra and siverado as the same thing mostly. except ford and dodge that way they can shove both of them further down in the sales ratings.
March 30, 2012 at 8:41 am #39447
@Vic1212 That swings both ways and ends up being a wash. Some Chevy dealers are “kind” while others not so much. And the same can be said of GMC stores. Ultimately, we need to assume that all dealers will do their best to get your business across the board, which includes “good behavior” and good customer service.
March 31, 2012 at 4:42 pm #39466
GMC is the second largest of the four General Motors brands.
March 31, 2012 at 5:01 pm #39467
May 19, 2013 at 4:24 pm #41750
I’ll go to Furd, no way will I drive a Chevy, truck, SUV or wheel barrow if it has a bow tie on it! Look too cheap!!
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