Rumormill: Next-Gen Lexus ES Will Make Buick LaCrosse “Laughable”
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Something interesting happened during a recent conversation we had with a well-connected auto industry executive. As our light-hearted conversation turned to General Motors, the exec said that Lexus’ upcoming ES luxury sedan will make the Buick LaCrosse “laughable” as a luxury vehicle. For the uninitiated, this is significant, as the ES is the LaCrosse’s most direct rival.
When pressed for details, we were told the following:
- The next-gen ES will be wider and longer than the current model, which is nearly seven inches shorter than the LaCrosse. In that regard, the Lexus will be catching up to the Buick. But…
- The next-gen ES will be the quietest car Lexus has ever made — something Buick’s Quiet Tuning won’t be able to “hold a candle to”. And then there was this…
- The next-gen ES will offer Hybrid Synergy Drive full-hybrid technology and achieve fuel economy in the high 40s on the highway and even better in the city. “The eAssist stuff won’t even come close”.
Just in case you’re wondering, the exec in question rolled up in a Buick LaCrosse. By this time, you may be wondering whether this person is an employee of The General or Toyota/Lexus. This is not the case.
The GM Authority Take
This could be everything… or it could be nothing. At the end of the day, it makes us wonder why GM still doesn’t have a full two-mode hybrid system to use in its passenger (read: non-SUV) vehicles, or why the Voltec powertrain has not made its way to more vehicles in the GM product stable. In our opinion, the Volt makes the Prius laughable; but that’s just us.
As far as we know, the next-gen ES will be a 2013 model. We can’t imagine you won’t have some thoughts to share about this.
PS: be sure to check out our video review of the LaCrosse right here.
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It will also likely be significantly uglier than the LaCrosse (or even the current Lexus Camry).
100% right on why there isn’t a two-mode hybrid for larger GM cars…
Hopefully it will ditch the camry platform in favor of an independent lexus only platform.
I’m still sure people will buy the lacrosse for its better looks and interior design, no matter what Lexus offers.
Suffice to say that the next-gen ES will look similar to the new GS, which — in my book at least — is a beauty. The same goes for the interior, which is very, very good on the current ES (drove a 2011 ES350 for a year).
And having been around many a Lexus dealership for many years, it’s been my experience that most people in the segment don’t pride themselves on the design of the vehicle. In fact, they couldn’t care less about design and power or handling. They just want a luxury badge that’s comfortable to drive and affordable (in their book).
Yea, by using the GS as a guide it has some serious potential to be a stunningly looking vehicle
Just noticed that I posted the first comment in January 2012.
I cant believe ive been on this site a year now and have learned alot, just like to say thanks to GMA and am look forward to a great 2012.
By the way I saw the link to this article on Google News, thats significant because that means GMA has enough traffic to be on there.
i kinda figure that Lexus is gonna slab the face of GS into the ES but we’ll see how it goes…but I would not be surprised that it’s still going to be a Lexus Camry though.
Thanks Babersher! We appreciate you!
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If I were GM I would take this threat very seriously, in light of toyotas recent troubles people have forgotton what Toyota is capable of. I was just driving Lexus’s first car, a 1990 LS 400, and I am still marveling at how stunningly well built this car is in almost every way and how even with a v8 its quieter than many new vehicles today. And being three years newer than the lacrosse it probably will be better, however I doubt that the milage will be in the 40s probably high 30s at best. And while GM should use a two mode hybrid system, it still is very impressive that GM managed to get 36 in such a large car. Im very glad that toyota will be providing some serious competion to Buick, it indirectly gives it a greater sense of brand identity and competition is always good for consumers and manufacturers. I mean part of the reason Lexus is losing its crown and some of its models sales are lagging is because it did not have any serious competition.This also shows that lexus is serious about rehauling its lexus brand. Hopefully they will replace the current too long in the tooth LS with a credible S-class fighter. Very happy to hear this news and hopefully its true.
we’ll see
I think the best thing to take away from the article is how serious a threat Lexus considers Buick. Clearly, LaCrosse has made some in-roads. 10 years ago Buick wasn’t even a blip – score one for Buick.
I have seen it written in the past that lexus did well because they did buick better than buick did. I think the tide has begun to turn back to buick doing cars like buick should be doing. buick is more than competing and producing cars less expensive , in some cases better than lexus offerings. the revolution at buick began about 4-5 years ago and see what they have done. I have seen the next gen LaCrosse and I am not going to count buick out at all in fact I think Lexus better be careful the Yen is not going to make pricing of the Lexus very easy. toyota is good at badge differentiation and I am sure the product will be good but I know buick has a fire in their belly and wants to improve on everything.
Nice comment, I hope you’re right.
JD — you’re absolutely right! The ES and RX, in particular, did Buick better than Buick did Buick. I just hope that those who have “defected” to Lexus haven’t/won’t discount Buick entirely.
As for the Yen issue, they can start building any and all Lexus vehicles in Canada (Cambridge, Ontario plant) and have that taken care of with one fell swoop; in fact, the RX is built there as we speak!
For Buick to do Buick better than Lexus (or to do Lexus better than Lexus), it will be necessary to offer luxury as standard equipment; so things like leather and keyless/hands-free entry and start need to be standard. Buick is 99% there, they just need to reconfigure the trim levels and option packages and slightly raise prices. No Buick should be under $30,000.
The Lexus ES already makes the Buick LaCrosse “laughable”. The next gen. ES will compete with the BMW 7-Series, current Outdated Lexus LS, Audi A8
Quick Notes
48/51
Looks like a Jaguar XJ(Looks similar to the redesign of the 2013 Avalon)
Front looks like a Lexus LS
Side is almost like a BMW 5-Series sedan
Interior is similar to the new GS
Will be a downgraded version of the LS
FWD
No AWD option
We will see the car at the NY auto show in April
Do not know when it goes on sale(Prolly Summer, maybe Fall?)
A glorified Camry using “fightin’ words” against a glorified Malibu.
Less talk, more action please.
Agreed.
The fact that the ES is based on the Camry is irrelevant. The vehicle is so far and above what a Camry is that it’s like comparing Wayne Gretzky when he was 10 and Wayne Gretzky at the top of this NHL carrer.
In fact, GM should learn from Toyota and the way it has structured Lexus. For starters, Lexus is a real division (not a brand). It has its own designers and its own engineers that work in tandem with their counterparts at Toyota in developing platforms and engines. Compare that to GM’s “GM designers and engineers” set-up…
I dont think thats true considering many lexus vehicles are Toyota in other countries like the Lexus GS
not unless its a rebadge
No, that’s the way it USED to be. From 2007 on, Lexus has been a global brand, even in the JDM. It’s the only Japanese brand to have done so.
Honda (with Acura) and Nissan (with Infiniti) were planning on doing the same, but the two are not as cash rich as Toyota was before/during the recession.
So, Lexus vehicles are NOT sold as Toyotas elsewhere. They were, but that ceased to be the case since 2006.
The Lexus division actually has its own building in Toyota City and employs about a hundred designers and engineers, not counting administrative, support, and corporate retail sales staff.
Trust me mate, I used to live and die by Lexus
My fear about this sight is that it will be hijacked by government motors fruitcakes, I have really enjoyed the dialogue on this sight and hope for a strong debate in the comming year minus any govmotors fruities. Happy New year GMA, regarding the Lacrosse I think it is by far one of the most handsome cars on the market. Good job GM, and Screw Lexus.
We’ll be sure to get rid of said fruitcakes swiftly and easily.
Most extremists (from any party) don’t add value to the conversation anyway. They just pollute it.
I’ve had the displeasure of holding what I thought was an intelligent conversation on a (political) website that shall remain nameless; what ended up happening was that I was labelled a leftist extremist for liking GM because of their products. That was the end of that.
Shut up commie!:)
I know!
Hey, Alex…..you have said it before, Buick should raise prices and offer even more standard….will have to watch how the Verano sells and see what they do with it after the new 2.5 is added later on….
I think the Buick line will continue to sell well….Excellent call on that
The one thing that somewhat bothers me about Buick’s lineup and pricing strategy is that they seem to be occupying a sort of middle-market. If one looks at trends over the last decade, it’s clear that this middle market (between mainstream and lux) is slowly going away. It grew with the likes of Acura, Mercury, Saab, Volvo, and even Buick… but Saab and Mercury are no more and Acura is always outsold by “real” luxury brands that cost more.
So moving Buick upmarket will allow for a higher price (thus a higher margin) and the appeal of a true luxury vehicle. Acura and Volvo don’t need competing with at their low sales numbers.
Alex, yes there is always at least one person who has to ruin the conversation most of enjoy here…..comments that are not even worth reading. This is a great site with a lot of quality information. People who do not like GM or their cars should not even comment or be here anyway
Thanks Dan!
A few thoughts to clarify this post:
1. This “executive” doesn’t work for Lexus, as far as we know, so this is officially a rumor only.
2. There seems to be a desperate undercurrent of belief that Lexus sees Buick as a real sales competitor because this person brought up the Buick, or he drove up in a Buick. Again, to our knowledge, he doesn’t represent Lexus in anyway, and Lexus has never mentioned Buick in any way.
3. Buick has definitely been following Lexus, for decades, not the other way around, going back to such atrocities as the Buick Riviera and Buick Rendezvous, blatant attempted knock-offs of the Lexus SC and Lexus RX.
If Lexus ES Hybrid can get significantly better EPA MPG over a Camry Hybrid, I’d love to see it. It wouldn’t surprise me, but I’m not expecting it.
This “conversation” shouldn’t be misconstrued as a Lexus missive on the Next ES.
BD
Agreed on all accounts. We’re not about to reveal our sources (of any kind), so it should be treated as a rumor. However, you can bet your pants that the information is accurate… so treat it as a rumor that will become reality.
There was a rumor a while ago that Lexus was going to stop basing their cars off of Toyota platforms … of course w/ the economic downturn & natural disasters I am pretty sure that this (and the next RX) will be Camry based.
They’re already kind-of-sort-of doing this, but not entirely. The RX, for instance, is still mechanically close to the Highlander (and Venza)… but it does have a different wheelbase and track than both of those.
Again, I don’t see a problem with platform sharing with Toyota as long as it’s done well. Ultimately, Lexus engineers tune the architectures to suit the needs of the Lexus vehicle.
The more I look at this article, the more it makes me think that in this case it’s weird that Lexus(as a luxury brand) is aiming at Buick(Premium brand).
A couple of things, Vic:
1. Lexus isn’t going after Buick on purpose. Lexus has, almost since the beginning, pretty much done its own thing and spearheaded its own direction. So Lexus isn’t looking at the LaCrosse and making it a benchmark. They’re simply improving their own product with a redesigned version.
2. Premium vs Luxury is a whole topic in and of itself. In my opinion, attempting to occupy the premium segment is a colossal mistake of resources: more profit can be made and a more quality product can be delivered by being a luxury brand, instead of straddling the imaginary line between mainstream and luxury known as premium. But even then, the consumer doesn’t make that differentiation consciously… And doesn’t really care.
However, people know that — as far as brand cachè and “luxury factor” goes — Lexus is greater than Buick. And that’s what matters.
There is no reason why Buick should not be a luxury brand that values soft driving dynamics and refinement (ala Lexus) over speed and performance (Cadillac, BMW, Audi, MB turf). The customers are luxury customers in droves, but are much fewer as premium customers.
I love it when a loudmouth gets his ass kicked. Actions not words. Like those ridiculous Nissan truck commercials, does anyone but a moron believe those computor generated commercials are real?
Frankly, I would be disappointed if the next ES was less than the LaCrosse. That would mean that somebody at GM would feel it necessary to do nothing more with it! Let the one-upmanship begin! Let’s not forget that Toyota studied the big boys in the market for years and then created Lexus. Now that lexus has become a big boy, they too will be studied, and they too can be dethroned…that’s what makes the cars on the road today as good as they are…COMPETITION!
Couldn’t put it better myself.
Lexus is by no means unbeatable. But outside of half-hearted and ill-strategized attempts by Buick and Lincoln, no one has really pursued them in a direct fashion. Hopefully, Buick will change that.
One of the old GM’s biggest problems, is to improve on a current model. GM has thrown away complete model lines to bring something else, read that new and improved to GM, & without model loyality, they loose sales. Now that Buick is a target, or a higher bar for Lexus, Buick (all models) needs to become a bigger target. In any case its good to finally be a target. Having been in both cars this month, Buick, even the base model, certainly has raised the bar.
After I saw the spy shots of the new ES it just looks like the GS…very fugly to me
These claims about the 2013 ES are a scam. ALL Toyotas and Lexus’s a noisier nowadays that they used to be and the 2013 ES will be no exception. Toyota, like Honda, has bean counters that are in charge of everything nowadays and they’ve cut the quality of the sound insulation and interior furnishings to the bone. I’ve rented two all new 2012 Camry’s to date and have been appalled at how noisy they are and rougher riding as compared to Camry’s of the past and their electric steering makes it a real chore to keep the car going straight down the highway without constant steering corrections.
Verla — let me get this straight: based on your experience with the new Camry (which is even better than the outgoing model), we are to understand that the upcoming ES will be noisy? Pardon me in saying so, but that doesn’t exactly make much sense…
You seem to be basing your opinion on rented cars — which is never a good barometer by which to measure a vehicle in the first place due to oh so many variables…
So what, exactly, is a “scam” here?
I guess this person just meant like in terms of trash talking=scam by Toyota people. But to be honest, The ES just looks really no bueno when attached with the GS face.
I rented two 2012 Camrys from a Toyota dealer that had only about 3,000 miles on them, hence their tires had not yet developed wear patterns that enhance road noise. The road noise level at freeway speeds was no better than the numerous 2007 and earlier Camrys and Avalons I have rented over the years. Since the 2013 ES350 will be based on the Avalon or Camry, it will have similar noise levels as it ALWAYS has had (except during 1989-1996 when the ES250 & 300 were significantly quieter than comparable Camry’s because back then Lexus put significantly more noise and vibration materials in them)
The “scam” is that this unidentified “industry expert” has falsely claimed Lexus intends to make the ES350 the quietest Lexus ever produced and that it will be far ahead of any Buick in that respect. It’s not going to happen. Lexus cannot afford to make the 2013 ES350 that quiet. The 2013 model will be just like the 2012 model – reasonably quiet, but it won’t set an industry benchmark. So this “industry expert” is building up expectations that Lexus cannot meet and therefore he/she stands to embarrass Lexus when the 2013 model turns out to offer only averages levels of quietness for its class segment.
I see. I guess the fact of whether or not Lexus can or can’t beat its current range of delightful products in terms of quietness remains to be seen… ironically, said industry expert has no incentive, any which way, of seeing Lexus or Buick fail or succeed.
But I would, however, challenge your evaluation of the ES compared to the Camry. I drove a fourth- and fifth-generation Lexus ES, each for about a year. During that time, I also had the opportunity to drive Camrys of the same generational model. To me, the vehicles were as different as day and night in the fields of ride, sound/noise isolation/elimination, and build quality. The Camry was simply a good mainstream midsized sedan while the ES was a luxury car through and through — even given its Camry relation.
I think it’s more than possible to make the 2013 ES even more quiet than the outgoing model (which is already pretty silent), especially given the info regarding the Hybrid Synergy Drive system…
I would be interested on how it does compare to the MKZ hybrid
I’ve also driven late model ES’s and read the Consumer Reports / Car & Driver/ Road & Track/ Motor Trend tests about them. Aside from a more comfortable front seat, the driving experience of an ES pretty much mirrors the Camry and Avalon. This is not surprizing since all three cars share the same body and suspension. Look under carpets, under the trunk mat, under the rear seat, inside the doors of an ES. Do you see significantly more insulation? No, because the ES has only marginal amounts of insulation to begin with just like the Camry and Avalon do. All Lexus does to the ES is put a little 3M Thinsulate behind the plastic front wheel splash liners and sometimes uses “Quiet steel” in a few areas. And a little thicker insulation in the firewall. Those measures make the car only a hair quieter than the Camry/Avalon – and that advantage has been partly negated since about 2006 when Lexus started putting extra wide wheels and tires on the ES that enhance road noise and vibration.
Whatever the case, the ES is the quietest car I’ve ever driven outside an electric, and by far the quietest and most refined car I’ve ever owned as far as NVH and touch/feel goes. At the end of the day, that’s what counts… and that’s what matters to the consumer.
Anyone can check out the lexus owner forums such as clublexus.com or lexusownersclub.com and see many complaints from current ES350 & LS460 owners about how their cars are noisier and rougher riding than earlier generations,. Plus complaints about the cheapening of the interior furnishings (e.g. the current ES350 has Camry thin carpeting). Thus it is highly unlikely that Lexus plans to reverse this trend in a big way with the 2013 ES350. Thus GM executives can relax and not worry about the new 2013 ES toppling their latest Buicks in the noise/vibration/harshness/interior furnishings department.